IHJZ The Real Housewives of NYC Pecking Order

The Real Housewives of New York City

Blog on the Prairie by Quincy IL

I love the term “pecking order.”  It reminds me of a bunch of hens fighting out in the roost.  The term “peck order” refers to the expression of dominance in birds. It was originally described in a German Article by Schjekderup-Ebbe .  The author noted that “defense and aggression in the hen is accomplished with the beak.

“The Real Housewives of New York City” express their dominance by pecking each other’s eyes out in interviews filmed by Bravo producers for their reality show. Dominance in New York City Real Housewives is expressed in various behaviors:

  1.  I will not film with her.
  2. I will set her straight.
  3. It is all about me.
  4. If you don’t support me, I won’t support you.
  5. I am the victim.
  6. You are the bully.
  7. You are not my equal.
  8. You are not my friend.
  9. Not here, not now.
  10. It’s never about what it’s about.

 

“I will not film with her. “  This is a behind the scenes fight that was brought to our attention in the Season Three Reunion show by Bethenny.  This battle has been going on for years, but we did not know.     Jill called Ramona and Alex asking them not to film with Bethenny.  Jill denied this at first and then apologized after Ramona and Alex confirmed Bethenny’s statement.

We watched Kelly receive an email from Jill which Kelly read on TV because a little bird (Ramona) had told Jill that Kelly and Bethenny had come to an agreement while picking out the designer for the Brooklyn Fashion show. Although cryptic, Jill was telling Kelly that she knew she had broken a promise to Jill.   Luann must have gotten the message and agreed with the messenger because she was as quick to leave a booth as Jill when Bethenny arrived on the night that Bethenny/Jason engagement was announced.   Luann was miserable when Bethenny showed up at a fashion show and not filming with Bethenny was a part of that equation.

Luann told us that at one time or another everyone has said that they should not film with someone. Bethenny immediately copped to the crime and stated that she did not want to film with Kelly.  Ramona didn’t want to film with Alex and Simon for all of Season One and Season Two.   In the Fourth Season, Kelly will not film with Ramona.

Not filming with someone makes that person less likely in the scenes of the show and all of the women know this. 

“I will set her straight.”  Luann is the recipient of the award for the housewife most likely to lecture another housewife and walk away.  Luann will drive across the street after demanding that Bethenny drive 3 hours for a sit down and tell Bethenny that she is not allowed to criticize Luann ever. Luann will pull Alex aside and ask her, “Who made you God?” Amazingly, Kelly came in as a close second in this race.  The first lunch on the yacht off St. Johns is an example of Kelly telling the women who and what they are allowed to discuss in front of her. Jill has corrected Kelly and then proceeded to use the word “like” that she asked Kelly not to use.  Who can forget, “Zip it!”? That was a true break through moment.

The other housewives react poorly to being disciplined by Luann and Kelly, of course.  Kelly did not react to Jill’s comments because she wasn’t paying attention to Jill at that time. In fact, Kelly never pays attention to what Jill says.

“It’s all about me.”  The Sonja Morgan March Day was a recent example of this form of dominance. She would not allow Simon or Alex to take away from her event, but there have been other examples in the past.  The Season Two finale featuring Jill Zarin at a Charity event was an “all about me moment.”  Ramona’s celebration of 17 years was her moment in the sun at the end of Season Three.  Apparently, losing your notes is a part of these events because all three women lost their notes before they spoke. Kelly has had her “all about me” events too.  Unfortunately, Kelly missed some of those moments.  The ladies had gone when she arrive at the Halloween Party in her bunny outfit.  She was disappointed that they were waiting for her.

“If you don’t support me, I won’t support you.”  Ramona texted this “threat” to Kelly, but I’m sure that others have gotten those email and texts before.  The premier events for the past three seasons have been battles for who will go to what party. Poor Andy Cohen has to go and drink at everyone’s party and he wishes they would all just get along.  Ramona asked Jill why should would represent the Kodak Company on film.  Jill paid Ramona back at the next event.  Sometimes, it would be better if they refused to film with each other.  Ramona rallied the troups to attend Cindy’s birthday party, but I suspect she will not do that now that Cindy refuses to serve pinto grigio at her events.

“I am the victim.”  You would think this award would go to Jill Zarin for her performance throughout Season Three as she battled Bobby’s cancer, Bethenny’s betrayal, and Alex’s messages; but Kelly’s ability to break through, call people bullies, and continue that fight into Season Four helped her win by a slim margin.  Sonja tried to be a victim of Simon’s size and loud voice, but Alex nipped that in the bud and stopped that nonsense with an agreement to move forward with their friendship. 

“You are the bully.”  This is a toss-up.  Jill and Kelly have joined forced to make us doubt our own eyes and ears when it comes to what we watched week after week during Ramona’s renewal on St. Johns.  Jill has attempted to make us believe that Alex is a force to be reckoned with, but she is going to have to work a lot harder on that project.  Kelly, on the other hand, is doing a really good job at shunning Ramona for inviting Kelly to Scary Island.  We will see if the Sonja Morgan Armistice holds next week. Ramona is very wary of what is happening behind the scenes with Jill and Kelly. 

“You are not my equal.”  Our cup runneth over with housewives who share this form of dominance.   Jill Zarin shared that Alex was at a wedding above her social station.  Luann, who has a courtesy title from an ex-husband, made sure all servants knew they were not on her level, but she also let her fellow housewives know that she was above them from day one.  Asking your fellow housewives to address you as Countess, is a way of telling them that they are not your equal.  You have a title and they do not. Kelly told Bethenny she was not her equal in the infamous, “I am up here and you are down there” moment.  Sonja told Cindy about pecking order at a formal tea served by a houseboy who is not allowed to dance.  Ramona let Cindy know that she better have the pinot grigio glass in her hand when Ramona walks in the door. 

“You are not my friend.”  Jill Zarin wins this award.  Whenever there is a confrontation, Jill Zarin says, “You are not my friend.” Recently, Kelly has shared that she will never be friends with Ramona.  Sonja let Cindy know that they aren’t going to be friends because Cindy told Kelly Sonja’s plan to get Kelly and Ramona together.  Alex also shares that she will never be friends with Jill Zarin.  Cindy thinks she was never really Ramona’s friend.  Luann never says this statement, but we all know that she is not friends with any of these women.  She only shares this information in interviews with us.

“Not here, not now.” You might think that this is a new form of dominance invented by Cindy who does not want Ramona to confront her brother on national TV because she promised him that being on a reality show would not embarrass the family, but we actually have seen this many times with Jill.   Jill likes to quickly dismiss Alex and make a joke.  She has done it for several years and that is why Alex has become so frustrated. Luann has controlled the topic of conversation on many occasions.  She is quick to end discussion of marital infidelity when she sees it’s her turn to speak. In Season Two Kelly’s response to a question that she feels is inappropriate was to tune out, but lately she lashes out and reminds everyone that she is the victim of Scary Island.  Sonja tried to pull this one on Alex at the Sonja’s painting event, but Alex chased her from room to room refusing to obey.  Alex started chasing people from room to room during the hives outbreak of Season Three.

“It’s never about what it’s about.” Bethenny told us this secret. All of the housewives on all of the shows try to hide what their real agendas are.   Of “The Real Housewives of New York City,” Alex is the most honest with her agenda.  She shares that she wants to make money, wants to be seen in the newspaper and wants to be a part of this society in NYC.  The other women are on the show to sell their products and make money too, but for some reason they resent Alex’s attempt to find success.  It doesn’t surprise me that Jill, Luann, Sonja and Kelly feel this way.  They all married for money.  Their status is because of a man chose them for a period of time in his life.   They all are afraid to be on their own and that is the secret that keeps them from being happy with their own lives.  The only way they feel they can keep their position is by forcing others to be below them.  In the hen house, we call that “ pecking order.”

                                                                                

 Information Researched by the IHJZ commenters

There was a discussion of the weird scenes in Alex’s home where she held Francois tightly in her arms and asked him to look her in the eyes.  After two days of speculation, Alex McCord confirmed that her son was pushing away a sound boom.  In her bravotv.com blog, Alex said that she should have stopped the filming as her sons were exhausted from a special birthday adventure and shocked to find a piano and a new person in their dining room. 

  1. housewifeaddict says:

May 7, 2011 at 7:37 pm

Quincy – your theory is confirmed:

mccordalex Alex McCord
@________ nope not at all, he didn’t want to film that day and was swatting at the boom microphone.

Reply

  • housewifeaddict says:

May 7, 2011 at 7:39 pm

It was in answer to this tweet:

Just watched the latest episode of #RHONY & I’m really confused now @SimonvanKempen @mccordalex is their oldest son autistic?

Not long ago I speculated that there were two apartments above Simon and Alex’s home in their Brownstone with a white brick façade in Brooklyn.  My guess was correct again.  I have to buy a lottery ticket.

  1. housewifeaddict says:

May 7, 2011 at 11:12 pm

Here is the answer from Simon on their home: (I was sure I saw stairs in the background). Looks like they own the whole thing – and he mentioned in another tweet that they invested $650,000 in the renovation.

@SimonvanKempen – Does the brownstone u live in have more than 1home in it?

Yes we live on 3 flrs 3,000 sqft & rent out 2 flrs RT @——-:

PS – Simon is losing his patience on the Francois thing – people are being pretty relentless. He also confirmed that Francois was looking at the mike boon.

I will say this – Simon doesn’t seem to block people, he just answers them one by one. I respect that.

 _________________________________________________________________________________

I don’t visit other blogs.  Are they all discussing the piano scene or is Simon  reacting to the discussion on this board that we know he reads?  Bells went off when we watched that interchange between mother and child.  Bravo put that scene in their reality show and they mislead us if we went astray.  Simon and Alex should understand that we can only react to what we observe and we use own life experiences to help us understand.  This is normal Human behavior. 

 Everyone on the board has a clean slate this morning in celebration of Mother’s Day.   Now that Simon and Alex have confirmed the sound boom theory, we know what really happened that day.

Alex described Francois School and it sounds like a NYC school for gifted children.

  1. housewifeaddict says:

May 7, 2011 at 12:03 pm

After reading Simon’s blog, I think Francois has been admitted to NY’s newest elementary school for the gifted.

http://www.examiner.com/gifted-education-in-new-york/new-york-city-s-newest-citywide-school-for-the-gifted-brooklyn-school-of-inquiry

It completely fits the way Simon described it, as a city-wide school that currently goes to 2nd grade, and will go through 8th eventually. It looks like it opened last year 2009/10 – so they were lucky to be able to transfer in. Kids have to test well, and then there is a lottery.

 

Our own HD met Vicki Gunvalson at a book singing near Louisville, Kentucky.  Vicki gave HD a hug and told her to watch tonight as this is the episode that will bring tears to our eyes.  My prediction is that Vicki and Don will decide to divorce in this episode.  They were still living together according to online articles and their home is for sale. 

Simon van Kempen and Quincy IL are competing to see who can write the most words on a 3.23 minute video.  Simon won this week. 

http://mccordvankempen.com/wordpress/?p=286

He included a link to the video.  I would enjoy reading Simon’s opinion of pecking order and the housewives that he knows well

Tonight I will be watching “Mob Wives” and” The Celebrity Apprentice.”  Lynn will blog “The Real Housewives of Orange County” and WWHL.  Lynn has been celebrating with family, but she will be back soon.

Happy Mother’s Day!  Feel free to dispute the pecking order blog.  Everything on this board is opinion and we can all agree to disagree.  BTW, Lynn is going to be shocked that I inserted a photo.  I am shocked too. rotfl,

Q

PS, Lynn’s friend real city housewife/reality crack house did a blog on pecking order too.  She has a lot of photos and a poll.  We will steal her results later in the day. LOL

http://goo.gl/fb/H1Jbz

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377 Responses to IHJZ The Real Housewives of NYC Pecking Order

  1. quincyil says:

    I think the rooster and hen on the bottom look a lot like Alex and Simon.

    • Golden Girl says:

      Good morning and thank you for your hard work Quincyil! Happy Mothers Day :-)

  2. Nancy says:

    Good morning everyone. It’s 4am out here and I’m still at work. Thanks God it hasn’t been that crazy. O’ops Kelly doesn’t like that word. Sorry Kelly.
    Happy Mother’s Day to all. Great blog Quincyil My goodness you are up early.
    Take the day off, it’s your day:)

  3. Kukulet says:

    Great blog, Empress Quincy!

    Happy Mother’s Day to all!

    • quincyil says:

      I got an Amazon gift card from my daughter and I am shopping for Art books. She knows her mom.

      Q

      • Kukulet says:

        I like that. I know some people frown on gift cards as “impersonal”, but I think they’re a great gift. Gives you the pleasure of browsing around to pick out exactly what you want-and, really, what’s better than free shopping? :-)

        My kids at home gave me a dragonfly pendant. I love it.

        • quincyil says:

          I love any gifts that I receive. I appreciate the phone calls that I always get on my birthday and Mother’s Day too. My granddaughter, 20 months told me about her stuffed duck this morning. It is yellow.

          • Kukulet says:

            Yellow ducks are the best!

            I love talking to my grandkids, too. No matter what else is going on, that childish perspective always makes me smile, back up, and look at life in a more positive way.

            • quincyil says:

              I love children. I always wanted to adopt more, but that is not something Iranians do in culture.

            • indy anna says:

              Quincy: You have got to be one of the most interesting people I know in the blog world (with the exception of Lynn of course). Mucking stables and reading art books. Marrying a man with such a different background from you. Graduating from college then living on a farm on the praire. The Housewives should only be as interesting as you (exception – Bethenny. She is as interesting as you in another way).

              • quincyil says:

                LOL… I have a strange sense of humor.

              • Christine says:

                Quincy, I would love to talk about your life some day. The more I read from you and read what other bloggers write to you, I think more and more that you and I have had similarly diverse lives.
                Let me know when we can chat.
                Thanks for what you do for both Lynn and the rest of us here.

                • Okie Folkie says:

                  YEAH! What Christine just said. Thanks Quincy and Lynn too.

                  I hope Lynn is having a fun time what ever she may be up to.

  4. Nancy says:

    Simon,
    Please tell Alex Happy Mother’s Day from Lynn’s/Quincyil’s blog.
    Bethenny is going to be on WWHL tonight. It’s party time!

    • Golden Girl says:

      Ditto

    • quincyil says:

      I am going to tweet that to Simon. It will be tweet number 4 in two weeks. I keep thinking I have to have something profound to say in that limited text.

      I took a poetry class for adults and we discussed poets and their ability to give an image in so few words. It’s an art.

      • Nancy says:

        Q,
        If anybody is going to up to Simon it’s you. Good luck.

      • @tweatcyn says:

        Quincy, I want to follow you on twitter. Lynn said you don’t tweet but that was a long time ago. May I know your handle? Email or tweet it to me plz.

        • quincyil says:

          You can tweet to someone who does not follow you? I did not know that.

          At the risk of being banned by Jill Zarin who I can always google: QuincyILIHJZ. Let me know on the board if anyone wants to follow me.

          I don’t tweet often, but they are all profound. rotfl…

          • @tweatcyn says:

            Oh, here you are. Thanks for answering. I will follow. Ask me any twitter questions you have too.

    • DJ Loops Fruit says:

      Simon and the boys made her breakfast in bed
      that was really thoughtful
      Hope everyone of the Moms on this blog has had a beautiful day

  5. Nancy says:

    Pecking Order at work.
    Nurses,
    Nurses,
    Nurses,
    Patients,
    Doctor’s

    Pecking Order at home.
    Our Dog,
    Our seal point,
    Our blue point,
    Me,
    My husband.

    As it should be.

    • quincyil says:

      I was just talking to the Doctor and we both agreed that the most important people in our lives are my grand daughter and the baby girl coming in July. Our kids are grown and doing well.

  6. FlowerPower says:

    Enjoyed your blog this morning, Q. Kadooz on inserting that pic!

    Whenever I hear them talking about the pecking order I think of The Music Man–Pick a Little, Talk a Little. They’re all such nasty gossips about each other. None of them seem to care that Bravo has them all scratching around in the dirt just to keep their place on the show. Maybe that’s the type of person it takes to do a show like this.

  7. FlowerPower says:

    Happy Mother’s Day to all the moms here and a special remembrance of the moms we’ve lost.

    I’m going to spend the day in the yard, planting and mulching. My mom loved flowers and gardening. We planted some new azaleas in her memory this week.

  8. Happy Mothers Day all! What is WWHL?

    • quincyil says:

      Andy Cohen has a live talk show twice a week on Sun. and Thurs. He invites guest and Bravo stars. They drink alcohol, play inane games and in general make fools of themselves in the name of humor.

    • jeepers1941 says:

      WWHL = Watch What Happens Live

  9. Kellita says:

    Happy Mother’s Day to all of you who “mother” in some way. Big hugs to those who are missing their mothers today!

  10. Kukulet says:

    Oh, and here’s a question: Does anyone else find it a little creepy that Howie’s girlfriend Carol looks so much like his sister Cindy? I literally can’t tell the difference between the two, except that Carol looks a little taller.

    • Rabble Rouser says:

      I think another blogger might have mentioned the same thing. I don’t like Howie anymore than I like his sister…and that ain’t much.

  11. VAgirl says:

    THANKS, Q. CLUCK CLUCK, QUACK QUACK AND HAPPY MOTHER’S DAY TO ALL! SUSAN

  12. vilzvet says:

    In today’s NY Daily News there was a small item that Kelly’s dog Chief attacked two other dogs in the Hamptons, and Teddy ended up getting bit as well. but is okay. It also states that Kelly was out of town at the time, what a surprise. Hopefully she will be back for Mother’s Day that world traveller.

    • Lavalady says:

      Hi V. That’s an interesting story. So sad that she is not home for the weekend of Mother’s Day. And Chief is a big dog but young, right? Maybe he is too much for the kids to handle?

      • Okie Folkie says:

        Thanks Q, as always, great blog.

        What is it with KooKoo anyway, does she ever parent those two girls? And when she’s ‘outta town’ who is with them?

        Hope everyone has a wonderful day! It is quite beautiful in Oklahoma today.

    • quincyil says:

      Nothing from a google yet. When someone finds the article online, please post.

      It’s a young dog. I saw the other women were trying to keep their dogs away from Kelly’s dog at the dog walk. Sonja carried her old dog on the beach to protect it.

      Kelly sent the dog to a trainers. It was on her twitter.

      All dogs can bite. All horses can kick and bite. You train them. You know what they will react to and you makes sure you are in control.

      Black labs are usually good family dogs.

      • MicheleF. says:

        “Kelly sent the dog to a trainers.” Rrrrr! That just irritates me! You have to put the time and effort in yourself! Hire a trainer to train you if you don’t have a handle on things. If she doesn’t have time to train and care for the dog she really shouldn’t have it. (that goes for children as well; not training per se but time and effort and care – make them a priority.) She is a very selfish woman/child.

        • MK Valle says:

          We sent our dogs to trainers as well but were required to attended all the sessions…as it should be!

          • kotagirl29 says:

            The trainer I worked for didn’t train the dogs, we tought the people to train their own dogs while we supervised, corrected and demonstrated.

      • Debbie says:

        Thanks, Quincy, and a Happy Mother’s Day to all.

        from NY Daily News 5/08/11
        A ‘Real’ house-pup scuffle

        Kelly Bensimon’s dog Chief ruffled some fur in East Hampton when things got rough between the pup and a pair of pooches last weekend. A source tells us the rescued lab-pit mix tussled with two of interior designer Zina Glazebrook’s dachshund and Jack Russell terrier.

        Glazebrook declined to comment, but we hear that her dogs had to visit the vet and that Bensimon’s daughter Sea was bit trying to break things up. Fortunately, she wasn’t seriously hurt.

        Bensimon’s rep told us that “Kelly was out of town when the incident happened” and is “sorry” if Glazebrook’s pooches were hurt. She said that Bensimon “took care of the medical bill,” adding: “It was a case of dogs being dogs.”

        • MK Valle says:

          We were walking our very mellow Pit (prefer to call her a Staffy for staffordshire terrier) in the park and she was attacked by a dachshund. The little weiner dog had her down with it’s mouth on her throat. Our good girl just laid there until the owners of the weiner dog grabbed her off. Dachshund can be very aggressive, I know, I grew up with them. But it’s true, just dogs being dogs.

          • kotagirl29 says:

            One of my dogs is a pit-boxer mix. We tell people she is a boxer. And she does the same thing. She is the youngest of the four and whenever someone comes to the house or she meets/sees another dog she drops and shows her belly. I have found that most of the smaller breeds are more aggressive than the larger breeds. They have Napoleon complexes.

          • DJ Loops Fruit says:

            pits however have a reputation for a reason

            ther are millions of stories that start out that thiers is super friendly and would never get agressive that end with one of thier kids getting mauled

            • kotagirl29 says:

              True, but any breed of dog can attack. My Golden is the sweetest dog on the planet until he thinks I am being threatened. We had a neighbor that was a drunk and huffed paint and he stumbled into the driveway one night and started kicking the mailbox. It was like someone had flipped a switch in Rusty, he was ready to kill this guy. I have never seen him do that before (or after) but I have no doubt he would if someone was coming after me.

    • quincyil says:

      Found it… I feel that Kelly Bensimon has a cavalier attitude towards dog training and that is part of the problem with her dog.

      A ‘Real’ house-pup scuffle
      Kelly Bensimon’s dog Chief ruffled some fur in East Hampton when things got rough between the pup and a pair of pooches last weekend. A source tells us the rescued lab-pit mix tussled with two of interior designer Zina Glazebrook’s dachshund and Jack Russell terrier.

      Glazebrook declined to comment, but we hear that her dogs had to visit the vet and that Bensimon’s daughter Sea was bit trying to break things up. Fortunately, she wasn’t seriously hurt.
      Bensimon’s rep told us that “Kelly was out of town when the incident happened” and is “sorry” if Glazebrook’s pooches were hurt. She said that Bensimon “took care of the medical bill,” adding: “It was a case of dogs being dogs.”

      http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2011/05/08/2011-05-08_lil_wayne_is_missing_from_jennifer_lopezs_steamy_im_into_you_video_because_of_pr.html

    • error404 says:

      IIRC Chief is a rescue dog. Many rescue dogs have been abused and need special attention to overcome bad behavior learned during periods of neglect. Look up “irresponsible” in the dictionary and you’ll find a picture of Kelly. She got that poor dog as a PR stunt, and has no idea WTF she’s doing, as usual.

      • quincyil says:

        I had a mixed dog from the pound and she just would not accept training. I think Chief needs to be on a farm with someone like me.

        • Nancy says:

          Heck I want to be on the farm with you! ha ha

          • quincyil says:

            I am going to shovel now and listen to music. Then feed…. I talk to the animals and they talk back.

        • kotagirl29 says:

          Most of the bigger breeds, labs and retrievers, need to run A LOT! They are unhappy when confined or leashed all the time. One of my dogs is a papered Golden Retriever. I got him because his family could handle his energy. If he was in the house they kept him in a kennel and if he was outside he was chained. So when they let him off he ran around, jumped and just tried to get rid of some of his pent up energy. Six months after I got him they came to the house and couldn’t believe he was the same dog. He was calmly laying on the living room floor at my feet. They wanted him back and I told them to get bent. Once he had the room and the opportunity to run and play his behavior totally changed. Now he could never live with anyone else. When I go anywhere, he will lay at the top of the driveway and stare down the road waiting for me to get home. Whether or not he is my dog, I am definitely his person.

          • kotagirl29 says:

            oops * could not* handle

          • MK Valle says:

            yup, dogs must be walked everyday, a good brisk (did I just say brisk?) walk, not a stroll.

          • Sammysmom says:

            I love that story. It just made me so happy. I know, random but I just had a fight with a friend of mine, on Mothers Day, and your story just made me smile. Thank you for telling them to get bent and I am happy he has you as his person.

            • kotagirl29 says:

              I’m sorry about your fight, but glad my story made you smile. Rusty makes me smile every day.

      • PJ says:

        We have a rescue dog, a cute little Jackabee. When we got him the vet said he would never make it but our daughter nursed him back to health, fed him by hand because he was too weak to eat himself. He is a dear little fellow, but it’s impossible to socialize him as he only does really well when he is with his family. So it’s necessary to take care when bringing him around other people. The little guy never knows if someone is going to pet him or hit him. Sometimes he just pees but I have seen him go after people who frighten him. We love him because he is so loving but we always have to take his special needs into consideration.

      • WindyCityWondering says:

        We have a returned Siberian Husky – she was 9 months old when we brought her home – she could not play, if the tv or kids were loud she would retreat to her kennel – 4 years later she is loving and loyal. It takes training, patience and love.

        • PJ says:

          It’s so worth it. We’re still working with our little fellow; we’ve had him for two years. You just can’t take him for walks because he can’t handle the stimulation of other people, dogs, squirrels, birds, you get the idea. We haven’t wanted to use training collars since he was abused but are considering it we just don’t know if it’s a good idea or not. We don’t want him to feel abused again but it would be so nice for him if he could handle the socialization.

        • PJ says:

          It’s so worth it, isn’t it.

          • WindyCityWondering says:

            Positive paybacks every day!

            • PJ says:

              I just wish our little fellow could be more easily socialized. Some friends of ours got a training collar which they tell us makes it a pleasure to take their dog for a walk. We haven’t wanted to use one on our dog because of his past abandonment and abuse issues. But maybe we should consider it since it would help him get around the neighborhood without melting down from over stimulation.

              • kotagirl29 says:

                90% of aggression in dogs is because of fear. Dogs are happy and content when they know their place in the pack. My dogs are all rescues. They are all well socialized and listen because I do things like move them to sit in their spot (even on the floor), take their toys, and take their food. They know I am the Alpha. If your dog doesn’t know its place it is not happy. If your dogs stares at you, do not turn away until after they do, do not play tug unless you know you are going to win, and if you have to reprimand them do it in a “growly” voice. FIRM reprimands should be grabs on the scruff of the neck with “growly” voice. It is the way they treat each other and easier for them to understand.

                • PJ says:

                  Our dog obeys beautifully at home. He knows who the Alpha is. But take him out of his environment where he feels comfortable and he gets over stimulated and can’t handle himself. Partly his breed, partly the abuse and abandonment. This is the part I need help with.

                  • kotagirl29 says:

                    When taking him out you need to keep his attention focused on you and not what is going on around him. Bring treats (or favorite toy) focus his attention on that, give lots of praise when he pays attention to you. It will be baby steps, but getting him to focus on you will comfort him when out. Start small, short walks, frequent trips to the front yard, etc.

                    • PJ says:

                      Thank you we will work with him. How do you feel about training collars? Not choke collars but the ones that give a little pinch when the dog acts up? Our friends use one for their dog but their dog has never been abused. Do you think it’s unkind to the dog or better that he learns to act properly when out of his comfort environment?

                  • kotagirl29 says:

                    Pinch collars are supposed to simulate the corrective bite that an Alpha would give. I don’t like any of the training collars: choke, pinch, or shock. I think you can get the same results with treats, toys, and LOTS of positive reinforcement. When trying to get your dog to focus on you. Start inside with a small piece of treat up by your face. at first he will focus on the treat. Practice that a lot, when he is looking at you tell him what a good dog he is, pet him and give him the treat. Then when he focuses on you with or without the treat take it outside (with the treat), keep repeating process for longer times and distances, pretty soon the focus will be on you and not everything else.

      • Rabble Rouser says:

        I think all that rescue dogs require a owners with higher skill set than other dogs. I personally don’t feel that Kelly has the dedication or attention span to own goldfish never mind an animal.

        I had a friend who rescued a Jack Russel (who was abused) from the pound and I would sometimes dog sit for her. It was a very difficult dog, she allowed the dog to get into the habit of sleeping in the bed but if you moved in your sleep the dog would snap and bite at your feet.

        • kotagirl29 says:

          That dog does not know its “place” in the pack. It should be moved especially if it snaps and bites. If you treat a dog like the top dog would they learn where they belong.

          • Rabble Rouser says:

            Sadly, she ended having to get the put down. She was getting married and her husband had a dog. While there would be no issues with two dogs in the family, her JR did not get long well with other animals. Nor did it get tolerate children.

            • kotagirl29 says:

              I’m sorry, and please don’t take this the wrong way because I do not know every the entire situation. But I hate to hear about people having an animal put down (unless the animal is REALLY sick) and I hate when people just give up on an animal. When I adopt an animal it is for life. I could not and would not trade a child because of behavioral issues and I feel the same about an animal. All four of my dogs are rescues, they all have some trust issues (when meeting new people)because of the abuse they suffered in the past, but with love and security, they are all happy and healthy and are at their most “dangerous” when you are in range of their wagging tails and licking tongues.

              • Rabble Rouser says:

                Oh, I don’t take it the wrong way or personally. I asked her why she didn’t bring it back to a shelter or try to adopt it out but because of the dogs age and the restrictions that come with him, it wasn’t possibility.

              • MK Valle says:

                I totally agree with you kotagirl. You adopt a dog for life, put in the time with them or don’t have a dog.

                • kotagirl29 says:

                  Yup! I got my first dog (as an adult) and two cats when my ex-husband and I were stationed on Kodiak Island, AK. We drove home and because we had a small car there wasn’t room for all three. We paid for the cats to fly to Manchester, NH so my sister could pick them up and babysit until we got there. People thought I was nuts to spend $800 to “ship” two cats to the lower 48. I got asked a lot why I didn’t just take them back to the pound. You can probably guess my answer.

          • WindyCityWondering says:

            Kelly isn’t a good human for pets because she has no concept of what is truly needed by that dog. She rescued him and that is all she needs for her self validation. Jill is killing Ginger because she refuses to do what is healthy or best for that dog.

            • kotagirl29 says:

              I don’t think Kookoo is capable of taking care of anything, her kids, pets, or herself. As for Shill, well her dog is overweight and spoiled. She isn’t doing her dog any favors by over-feeding it, but I do think (I can’t believe I’m sticking up for her) she loves that damn dog. She would have to, cause Ginger is a complete jerk. But she behaves that way because Shill let’s her. It’s a vicious cycle.

              • Rabble Rouser says:

                How do you all feel about Giggy?

                • kotagirl29 says:

                  I think Giggy is adorable, but I am probably not the best person to ask. I am not a fan of the little dog as an accessory craze, and not a huge fan of little dogs period. I’m lazy I don’t want to bend over to pet my dog. My smallest is 58 lbs.

                  • kotagirl29 says:

                    I also think that Giggy’s hair loss problems are because he is dressed in clothes all the time. A lot of babies develop bald spots when they are in car seats of bouncy chairs all the time. I think something similar happened to Giggy.

                    • kotagirl29 says:

                      oops *or* bouncy chairs.

                    • Rabble Rouser says:

                      Funny you should say that because I mentioned that ‘itching’ he developed and was causing issues was probably chaffing.

                    • DJ Loops Fruit says:

                      Linda says she dresses him because of the disease that causes the hair loss

              • WindyCityWondering says:

                Jill loves Ginger but she is killing her all the same.

  13. Lavalady says:

    Happy Mother’s Day to all the moms out there. Enjoy the day. Going to brunch at my sister’s. So surprised she offered to entertain as she rarely has people over. But today she is having not only my family, but my husband’s parents as well. It’s nice not to have to cook and entertain for a change. And she’s a mom also, but her teenage daughter is helping.

  14. PJ says:

    Excellent blog Quincy. It was informative and fun at the same time, you are a good writer. Thanks for including Alex and Simon’s tweets to clear thing up, it definitely did and was much appreciated.

    • quincyil says:

      I miss Lynn. I think that everyone comes here for her insight, but everyone has to have a vacation sometimes.

      Last Sept., during “Flipping Out,” Lynn asked for volunteers on the board to write the blog as she had a lot to do and wanted help. I sent her an email saying that if no one else wanted to write it, I would. If Lynn needs help, I will never say, “No.” So many people enjoy this blog and discussion and I really like Lynn and the people here.

      • PJ says:

        Lynne is lovely and so are you. I really enjoyed reading this, and always enjoy reading what you have to say. Your research is always excellent and gives so much insight that would otherwise not be had.

        • quincyil says:

          I still remember rescuing you when I saw your comment on real city. I’m glad you and every one come here to share.

          • PJ says:

            Oh my goodness that was you, I had no idea. Well I owe you a debt of gratitude then thank you.

            • Okie Folkie says:

              She was sweet enough to bail me and some of our friends here outta jail a few nights ago. Empress Quincy will have yer back!

              • PJ says:

                I had no idea, I’m impressed.

                • quincyil says:

                  LOL. this was wordpress jail, not real jail. Sometimes one word will send everyone to spam. The name of Adgirl’s dog put a lot of people in word press prison. Lynn bailed those people out when she checked in.

                  • PJ says:

                    LOL. I didn’t think it was real jail, but wordpress jail can seem like real jail if you feel the need to comment. BTW our dog’s middle name is Quincy, and was before I ever read this blog.

  15. Rabble Rouser says:

    Happy Mothers Day to everyone….

    I guess the ‘pecking’ order in my family as been established since we are doing what my MIL wants to do- which is the way it ALWAYS is. I guess her having a birthday so clos.e to mothers day gives her a little more clout.

    I also keep telling myself, we are going on a Disney cruise next year which makes me smile.

  16. Caitlin says:

    Wow – the “pecking order” analysis is absolutely brilliant! Thank you so much for sharing a genius “filter” through which we can all better understand further hijinks of all Housewives. We do miss Bethenny, do we not, for she has provided so many pivotal clues as to what is really going on in front of and behind the camera. Easier now to see why Ramona and Alex will continue to get along and why Sonja was only a “temp” member of the blonde alliance. Now, can someone kindly explain why Sonja thinks her overaged, oversexed Brittany Spears imitation will get her anywhere? Thanks!

    • MicheleF. says:

      about Sonja, I was wondering as well. I was shocked when the fireman/baseball man asked her for her phone number. I asked my husband and he replied that she is a “sure thing.” According to him, when most single men are presented with a “sure thing” they take it. Doesn’t mean they will date them or even like them; they will just “sleep” with them. (of course he then said “But not me!”) If that’s true, looking at it that way Sonja is just more pitiful in my eyes.

      • quincyil says:

        I don’t think Sonja would view this as a negative.

      • Kansas Girl says:

        Yes, I think this is true. I lived with a guy (see chicken story below) who never failed to point this type of behavior out to me. It was enlightening. I do not live with him now.

      • WindyCityWondering says:

        Your husband is spot on – and women can spot that “one” as well. Sonja’s self worth seems to be tied to her sexual appeal. The older she gets the more pathetic this persona becomes.

        • Error404 says:

          I disagree. Unlike someone like Camille, Sonja has no problem maintainly many female friendships, rarely gets in petty digs at other women, and never resorts to the “jealous of my looks” excuse that Kelly, Camille, and halfthe cast of oc default to whenever someone suggests they are not nice. Sonja doesn’t give a shut if you like her or not.

          She also didn’t last in her job or her marriage due to being pretty or putting out, both of which lose clout very quickly. She obviously engages these men on a emotional and intellectual level. I doubt she’s just pulling crap out of mid air when she describes her ex as ” having met his match”. He proably said it about her many times himself.

          • Nancy says:

            I wonder why her marriage went south?

            • WindyCityWondering says:

              He got tired and moved on to another younger woman.

            • Error404 says:

              Scuttlebutt is that she was too trusting of strangers and embarrassed the family too many times by getting scammed or associating with controversial people.

              Having seen her with those “artists” as well as her toothless sooth sayer, I can see how it might be true. Just look at how nice she was to crazy on scary island.

              • quincyil says:

                Interesting. The divorce came when she had signed the Hannibal Productions contracts. He might have told her not to do it.

                On the yacht, she seemed not to know what happened, but I saw research that indicated Morgan told the newspapers things about her and trysts. They are off line now. She alluded to articles in the NYTimes being untrue when talking to Kelly at the Scary Island dinner.

                Sonja and her ex husband don’t speak. That says volumes. If you have shared custody how do you not speak to each other?

                • Error404 says:

                  Oh, that’s easy. All it takesis an enabler. For years my ex sil would call up my parents and schedule a drop off. Then my bro wood swing by and pick uphis kids.

          • AS says:

            I think she engages them on a purely sexual level, and I think she really likes having sex, so it works out.

  17. Christine says:

    Good morning all and Happy Mother’s Day.
    I need some assistance from you because a couple of things are bothering me.
    1. Has anyone seen any photos of JZ from her Australia trip? JZ never lets anything she does go unnoticed. I am wondering if that is when and how she had her face done.
    2. Has anyone seen any photos of Kelly’s modeling? I have been searching and cannot find 1 pic of her as “the face for Clarins”, or in Elle magazine and the only one in Harper’s Bazaar is in a 2010 interview.
    If someone can help me out here, I would greatly appreciate it.

    • quincyil says:

      I think the liquid face lift was something that happened in NYC because Sonja said she went to the doctor with Jill. Of course, they get botox and fillers all of the time so the recent changes are probably just a little more than normal.

      Kelly did put photos of her modeling years on her twitter account a while ago. If you hit on this and then look at the sides, you will see some of the shots that she put on twitter in response to a discussion here about her career ages ago.

      https://twitter.com/#!/kellybensimon

    • Okie Folkie says:

      Good point regarding JZ! That might be the answer to when she got her ‘liquid face-lift’. I was watching the rerun this mornin’ while she was at Alex’s, she had those bags under her eyes (as she always has) but in her talking heads not so much w/the bags.

      Yeah, I dont know about KooKoo and her modeling career. I did think she was the Editor for Elle. If that was the case would she actually be on the pages in pictures? Maybe articles….I dunno.

      • skogsstig says:

        Kelly Never-been-someone was “appointed” (Gil Bensimone was, at that time, high up in the command chain at Elle) editor of Elle Accessories, one of several special publications of Elle. It, and Kelly’s “job,” lasted all of 2 issues.

        • Okie Folkie says:

          Thanks skogsstig. I thought is was probably a “Special needs (made-up) job” specifically for KooKoo.

          Does Gils still work a lot?

          • quincyil says:

            He did a photo shoot for Bethenny. I think it might have been the one on BEA.

            • Okie Folkie says:

              I sorta love it that he has appeared on RHNJ & now BEA, but seems to me, he doesnt wanna get caught dead on RHNYC!

              I do wish we knew if he is a big part of the kids lives. I know they all live in the same bldg. But the dog incident, Kelly be a parent, please!

            • @tweatcyn says:

              Gilles shot Bethenny for Redbook and he also shot Danielle Staub’s daughter Christine on RHNJ. What a Burn!

    • Kukulet says:

      I’m pretty sure that Clarins doesn’t and never has had a “Face of Clarins” ad campaign. I don’t doubt that Kelly posed for a Clarins ad once, but the rest she seems to have “borrowed” from L’Oreal.

      Most of what she claims has been pretty much debunked as self aggrandizement. “Major NY trend setter” “equestrian”, etc. Still not sure about the “Ambassador of Wool”, because no one knows what the hell she is talking about. ;-)

      • WindyCityWondering says:

        Kelly may have done a print ad for Clarins and therefore in her literal world – she was the “face” of Clarins. This isn’t to be confused with the face of Estee Lauders or Channel – which are campaigns not one ad.

        • NYCer says:

          I absolutely remember Kelly as the face of Clarins. It was a long time ago and she was beautiful. This was all pre-Internet so I’m not surprised we can’t find any “evidence” but if I had saved any of my old “Seventeen” mags, I’d snap an ad for you.

    • @tweatcyn says:

      Kelly’s personal website has many many modeling photos in her gallery. there are a lot of what would be called magazine editorial photos. She looked really pretty. Nothing “supermodel worthy” in status though, like a vogue cover shot or makeup brand spokesperson. No Clarins pics. Those are probably with her Columbia “degree”.

    • Nancy says:

      Something bad is going on with JIll’s face. Last week on RHONY everything looked like it started sagging.

      • kotagirl29 says:

        Yeah, it’s called her personality.

      • WindyCityWondering says:

        I have been watching her face more closely this season since we got that shock on WWHL. This season she is looking lumpy and saggy and the difference is evident in her talking head shots – with and without professional make up. IMO, she did her liquid facelift because the mirror wasn’t lying.

    • Christine says:

      Thank you all for your responses.

  18. AZ Girl says:

    Happy Mother’s Day! Hope all the mom’s on the board having wonderful, relaxing Sunday.

  19. Kansas Girl says:

    I lived with chickens for 3 years. Well, next door to them. I helped feed them and I ran off predators. I spent a lot of time watching them. I could never figure out their pecking order, tho I know they had one. So now I’m comparing what I saw to the housewives.
    1. All the chickens seemed to peck at each other equal amounts. * The housewives peck at each other a lot, but I can’t decide if it’s equal.
    2. I know there was a chicken Queen, but she didn’t seem to have special privileges. She didn’t get to eat first, go through doors first, and the chickens didn’t seem to follow her. * The Queen of the housewives (whoever she is) may believe she has privileges, but I don’t see that the others always give her any respect.
    3. The phrase “to be chicken” comes from chickens’ behavior. As an example, although I was the treat lady every day, the chickens did not say, “Ooo, here she comes with something good!” Instead, their daily reaction was, “Aaaaa! Invader!” * The housewives remember from one encounter to the next who is on their Good Guy list. They don’t seem to be afraid of anything.
    4. The chickens would peck a sick or injured chicken and maim her permanently. (Despite my limited understanding of who was on top, I could tell this one was on the bottom!) * The housewives will attempt to maim others, as we have seen attempts to destroy reputations and jobs. There seem to be limits, tho, particularly with how far they go with Kelly. (Kelly is a sick chicken?)
    5. If you catch a chicken and hold it by the feet upside down, it seems to go into a trance and will not struggle. Humans can establish dominance over an aggressive chicken this way. * I don’t know if this would work with a housewife. (Simon holding his son over the trash could be debated as similar behavior?)
    6. We had 40 New Hampshire Reds and 5 black/white Wyandottes. The red ones were hard to tell apart except a few became fat and a few became thin, and about 3 became maimed in some way. The black/whites were all called Spike because they looked alike too. * The housewives do not look alike at all and it’s quite easy to tell them apart.
    7. All the chickens used the same nest box to lay eggs, tho we provided enough for all of them. They would create considerable racket when someone was in the box and they wanted to use it. * The housewives think Manhattan is the place to lay eggs, and make it clear that Brooklyn, Quogue (sp?) and other places are just not right.
    8. If someone left the door open, the chickens would cautiously (because they’re “chicken”) venture out and then run all over. * The housewives cling to Manhattan, but once they leave they seem to run all over.
    9. Chickens molt in the spring and look terrible. * The housewives have “liquid face lifts” and other enhancements to avoid natural changes.
    10. Chickens live to eat, and they will eat anything, tho they prefer some things over others. * The housewives don’t eat much and seem to prefer drinks over food.

    Thank you Quincy, for making me think about chickens. This exercise has been most interesting (to me — you may be asleep). :)

    • Okie Folkie says:

      Kansas Girl said; “This exercise has been most interesting for me”

      I say, you did a great job with your thoughts about chickens! I enjoyed it very much.

    • quincyil says:

      No problem.

      When I was a kid, I hated getting the eggs. Those chickens would sometimes fight back.

      • Kansas Girl says:

        Humans are definitely low on chickens’ pecking order! According to the chickens.

    • lovemamaearth says:

      I never noticed a pecking order in chickens either unless one got pecked to death.

      In our horses, there was always a pecking order. We had a stove up brood mare that could send the others scattering with a toss of her head at their direction or backing up in their direction.

      I think there are layers to loyalty that Sonja ineptly referred to. Loyalty layers on various issues and loyalty layers to certain people.

    • Zoey says:

      Enjoyed reading your analysis! Thanks!

  20. Pingback: A Little Space Cadet, Anyone? | Kelly Is Loco

  21. WindyCityWondering says:

    Happy Mother’s Day to all – do something nice today for a woman who helped you when you needed it. I love jewelry – so on Mother’s Day I wear the fabulous macaroni necklaces my sons (now 17 and 13) made when they were in kindergarten.

    Thanks you Quincy – the pecking order is a fascinating concept as applied to the housewives. IMO, Sonja brought it up because she was painfully aware of the Morgan Society pecking order and she was never near the top. I also think Jill, in her own mind, feels she has been top of the heap since season one – her intro puts her in a fabulous group and she instituted Team Jill almost immediately. During season one she had to show off her toys (houses, cars, planes to detox camp) so that viewers would know what was really important. In reality, I don’t feel there is an actual pecking order on RHNY because they all think they are better than each other and don’t acknowledge a univerally accepted true leader.

  22. fort lauderdale gay says:

    Good Morning to all. Happy Mother’s Day! To the mother’s we’ve lost: You are proof that love never dies.

    • Okie Folkie says:

      FLG, you said a mouthful there! ITA! Hope you are getten through your day alright, and everyone else who have lost their Mom’s too.

  23. Mookies1mom says:

    Happy Mother’s Day to all of our Moms!

  24. Kansas Girl says:

    I just had a wait-a-minute moment. Didn’t Jill thank Dr. Pat Wexler for saving Ginger’s life just this week? Isn’t Dr. Pat Wexler her dermatologist?

    • quincyil says:

      Pat Wexler is the plastic surgeon. She has a vet that she thanks all of the time, Dr. Cindy Bressler. They rhyme.

      • Kansas Girl says:

        You are correct, Q. Thanks. I read back in Jill’s twitter and indeed she cited Bressler. Then I had to go lay down, so am slightly delayed in replying with thanks.

        “Never mind” says Emily Lutella in a tiny voice.

  25. Bloshka says:

    This is Q.

    I have saved this post for Lynn’s review, but after reading the link and reviewing the post, I find this absolutely false and unfair to Alex McCord. I take responsibilty for removing this and have saved it in my computer for Lynn’s review.

    I apologize to all of you and to Alex McCord for leaving this on the site today.

    The van Kempen boys are healthy and happy children.

    Q

    • quincyil says:

      In “Pregnant in Heels,” maternity concierge expert Rosie Pope left champagne and two glasses in a hotel room for a mommy about to deliver. It seems that a glass every once in a while is not a big deal. When nursing, Bethenny’s baby nurse gave her a glass of beer.

      I asked my OB/Gyne about this when we were at a fundraiser and she said that normal people won’t have problems, but some alcoholics should not take alchohol.

      • Rabble Rouser says:

        I wonder your daughter would say.

        I wouldn’t want to take alcohol as I was going into labor because I would be unsure how it would mixed with some of the drugs used/can be used in child birth.

        • quincyil says:

          My daughter did not drink or use any medication during the pregancies. I did not drink or use any medication.

          We did not want to take any chances. Her undergrad degree is in Neuroscience, mine was biochemistry.

        • quincyil says:

          I am telling the truth about my doctor’s information. She thought that a little alcohol on a special occassion was ok.

          • Rabble Rouser says:

            Oh I don’t doubt you are. I’m sorry if you thought that was what I was implying.

        • quincyil says:

          I called my daughter. She did not think a glass of champagne with dinner would cause a problem. She said it might help the mother relax.

          She did her anesthesia training at a Harvard Hospital and spent many months giving anesthesia for labor and delivery.

          • Rabble Rouser says:

            I guess I wasn’t clear, when I was asking what your daughter would think, I meant about drinking alcohol right before delivery – and if there could be any ill effects or complications once pain meds for labor were introduced.

            • quincyil says:

              I would imagine so…but she did not answer. She may be out with my granddaughter because she said the weather was good.

              My mom’s meds have to be taken at different times of the day and she was warned about citrus and alcohol.

              • Rabble Rouser says:

                Citrus? Why is that I wonder.

                We were going to go out for MS here- but it’s unseasonably overcast- and I think the kids and I are coming down with colds.

    • housewifeaddict says:

      I find it very troubling that you would post this and make an insinuation that the chums have Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. It’s sort of like saying Bethenny was over 35 when she had Bryn, so you’re worried that Bryn has Down’s Syndrome. It is nonsensical!

      After I went into labor with my 1st, I was told by the doctor to go home and have a glass of wine, to get things moving. I did as told, and was back at the hospital in a few hours and delivered. I went through natural child birth, so I had no worries about drug interactions.

      • Rabble Rouser says:

        Natural labor, you have my admiration. My epi fell out when was in labor with my first and the pain was so bad, it was physically and emotionally traumatic. Especially when I didn’t know why I was in pain since they didn’t detect the epidural had come out yet..I thought my uterus we rupturing, I was scared for the life of my baby.

        • kotagirl29 says:

          That would tramatize me too. Holy crap!

          • Rabble Rouser says:

            Oh, it was unbearable.

            I also think I could have killed the nurse. I was SCREAMING and CRYING in agony, begging God to please make it stop and praying- and then she asks me to tell her ‘On a scale of 1-10, rate your pain’.

            • kotagirl29 says:

              Ha! I’m not laughing at your pain, but I think I would have killed the nurse. “1-10, try 10 million you dumb drag queen.”

              • Rabble Rouser says:

                I know, I could believe it..if I could have stood up I think I would have strangled her.

                I was also angry at my husband because he was sleeping right before all this went down. I felt like I was getting gutted like a fish and he is snoring away,

      • Miss Katherine says:

        this is crossing a line, i believe. not your post, i agree with you.

        but to discuss (actually, picking them apart) and diagnose these children is wrong! and i believe in europe it is considered to be okay to have one drink every once in a while (i think i’ve read some sources that say no more than one drink a week is safe). here there’s a kind of prevalent fear that having one gin and tonic will make your baby a mutant. clearly that’s not the case because many of our mothers and grandmothers probably drank moderately during pregnancy. it is only in more recent history that women were advised to cut out alcohol entirely.

        my mother had two drinks during her pregnancy, both champagne. once on my father’s birthday and once on new year’s eve. i honestly don’t have a problem with this. honestly, alex didn’t do something that uncommon–it’s just taboo to discuss it because THESE kind of reactions result.

        • PJ says:

          I agree with you why pick these children apart? They seem like such a happy family. This blog is pretty well read and children who these children play with and/or go to school with may have parents who read this blog, knowing that the parents are on the show. It would be so sad if these things were repeated to the kids. Children have so much to deal with these days why add to their burden.

      • MK Valle says:

        I’m with you, I find Bloshka’s post very disturbing. A glass of wine now and then does not make a Fetal Alcohol baby OR an alcoholic.

        • Christine says:

          ITA – Bloshka’s post was very inappropriate. Even if Silex put their kids on TV, that was just uncalled for, particularly on Mother’s Day. Save it for DR. Phil, Bloshka.

    • susan says:

      Can i see your medical degree and doctor’s license please?

      • indy anna says:

        Good Gawd. My generation smoked while pregnant, drank highballs, took medicines, ran after 4 other kids, did back flips with 4 other kids, washed floors on hands and knees and we had normal kids. No seat belts in cars, nursing in the front seat of a moving auto and still we had normal kids. All the talk is just so boring. Nothing done in moderation will kill mother or child.

        • Rabble Rouser says:

          What’s a highball?

          • Miss Katherine says:

            kind of an umbrella term for alcohol with a mixer. usually the mixer is soda, but sometimes it’s juice.

        • jeepers1941 says:

          indy anna, Take it you are a Hoosier Hot Shot, Muncie here.
          My folks generation was fine, they smoked, socially drank on Fridays and Saturdays as they set in our kitchen playing canasta, and we 3 kids turned out pretty decent for a while….haha Then my kids turned out not so good and there kids are the worst. It is those 2 generations that got screwed up and screwed. WTF was I thinking? When you reach my age, you see the things you did wrong, but now it is to late to turn back the clock. I just hope that somewhere in all this mess my great great grandkids figure it out as it is to late for my 7 great grandkids now……

      • Rabble Rouser says:

        Drinking while pregnant, even in moderation is obviously a very polarizing issue; not even the experts agree on it.

      • PJ says:

        LOL me too.

    • AZ Girl says:

      My mother had five children. Smoked and drank. Yes that was a few generations ago and we now know better. One glass of wine before deliver will not cause FAS.

    • Simon says:

      Bloshka,

      you linked to an article on a blog that referenced a largely made up story with a misquote in the Gatecrasher gossip page of the NY Daily News (a newspaper that a few weeks prior printed a ‘specially leaked’ exclusive that we were out of the 3rd season. ie it’s not known for its accuracy)

      Take this link to Google books which has our entire book cached for any one to read free of charge.

      http://books.google.com/books?id=nuvGfBQ9tAsC&pg=PA14&dq=little+kids+big+city+at+7:30pm+on+October&hl=en&ei=VuDGTZzsF-Pz0gHu_pDwBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CD4Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

      Alex didn’t have a drink when I drove her to hospital (we actually took a cab just after 7am in the morning), although she had a little Champagne the previous night at dinner. She also had natural childbirth so no drugs were involved not even tylenol! ;-)

      Happy Mother’s Day to all the Moms on the IHJZ blog.

      Simon

      • kotagirl29 says:

        Simon,

        I think that many of us here had already disregarded the article and the accompanying post.

        More power to Alex for the natural childbirth, cause I had a big ole epidural. I also had a glass of wine at a family wedding while pregnant.

        Thanks for the good wishes on Mother’s Day and pass along mine to Alex.

      • Shannon says:

        Thank you Simon for being man enough to set her straight but also by doing it in a polite way. Not sure I would have been as nice as you.

      • lovemamaearth says:

        Is THIS OUR Simon?? Hey happy mom’s day to you both.

        I wish you and Alex could get your own show and leave the toxicity of NYRHW. Shame on Bravo for showing your kids in bad light.

        • quincyil says:

          Yes, I think it is our Simon.

          • lovemamaearth says:

            How fabulous!! I’m picturing him in his red leather pants. :)

          • Okie Folkie says:

            Hi Simon! Thanks for stopping by. Please give Alex a big hug & a fine wish for a Happy Mothers Day.

            Hope you come again, soon!

        • quincyil says:

          Hit his name and you go to his book.

          • lovemamaearth says:

            That would be hard to fake. What an exra treat for us.

            Thanks for the fun write ups, Q and Lynn (when you come back) and to all the fun posters here.

      • PJ says:

        Simon you are amazing. Love to you and Alex and your adorable children! I think it’s fabulous that you comment here from time to time.

      • PJ says:

        Let me add, Simon you and Alex both have a lot of class.

      • jeepers1941 says:

        Simon,
        In my book, you are a real class act and so is Alex, sending her best wishes for a Happy Mother’s Day…… Jeepers

        • HD says:

          I am glad Simon came on and said something. I really think people are taking this a little too far about the son. I am quite certain if something was wrong with him we would have heard about it by now as I am sure they would have spoke up about it.

          • PJ says:

            Totally agree.

          • VAgirl says:

            Agree HD. Enough already!

            • Okie Folkie says:

              IF either of their precious chums had any sort of challenge or disability, I believe both Alex & Simon would holler it from the tallest rooftop.
              Then they would start a non-profit Foundation to raise awareness and money for any such ’cause’. And, it would be a reputable charity, unlike Dina.

              Hey, thats just my 2 cents.

              • kotagirl29 says:

                I agree Okie. Silex do not appear to be the type to shy away from a cause that is important to them (MENY march madness). So I am sure if there was something going on with one of the boys they would address it head on.

                • Okie Folkie says:

                  Exactly! I dont see them as being the sort of parents (or just plain folks, for that matter) trying to ‘hide’ any such imagined ‘condition’. I see them as wanting to learn everything & move forward reassuring the chums all the way.

                  OTOH, I can imagine Shill & Luman as being the people who might try to ‘hide’ any ‘condition’ their kids might have. Because, “WHAT would our neighbors say, dah-liing???!!!”

                  • kotagirl29 says:

                    Gotta agree with that too.

                  • PJ says:

                    I completely agree. Simon and Alex are real people who are working hard to provide the best for their children. Whatever else some may say about S & A they seem to be really good and loving parents. If there was an issue with autism or anything else they would be marching for the cause. I don’t see them trying to cover it up; they would be strong advocates for their children. That’s the reason I found it so upsetting that people were speculating about their son yesterday and of course this fetal alcohol syndrome today is far worse. I just don’t get it.

      • Kellita says:

        Simon~
        You’ve got adorable kids and a great family. Enjoy your day!

      • fort lauderdale gay says:

        What a gentleman! Thank you Simon! Bravo!

      • housewifeaddict says:

        Thank you Simon for responding in a very civil way to the misinformation that was posted about your family.

        I hope you and your family are having a wonderful mother’s day!

      • AZ Girl says:

        Wish Alex a Happy Mother’s Day from AZGirl.

      • Christine says:

        Happy Mother’s day Simon, to you and Alex. I don’t think any of us thought Bloshka had any business posting that crap.
        As an aside, I watch Mad Men, and find the scenes where all of the mothers, pregnant and otherwise, are smoking and drinking to be a real blast from my past. I’m not giving away anything about my vintage when I say that as how I remembered all of the ladies in my neighborhood.

  26. Duchess of Dryer Lint says:

    Happy Mother’s Day to all!
    The whole pecking order thing, combined with what this day is celebrating made me think, and if I may be indulged for just a moment, I would like to extend a special wish for a great day to my fellow Step-Moms. I know there are all kinds of Step-Moms out there, and some may be the Cinderella type, but the one’s I know are women who do the very best they can to walk the tight-rope, trying to find the balance between addressing a child’s needs and not stepping on biological Mom’s toes.
    When you marry a man with children, you agree to commit to those kids financially, emotionally and physically. Often, you invest yourself, and find that your opinion and your support (be it physical, emotional, or financial) is called upon when the need is there, only to be told to “stay out of it, these are not your kids” in other situations. Kids who need you and want to benefit from your presence on a good day suddenly turn on you and issue the dreaded “You are not my Mom!” when you have to put your foot down on a not so great day.
    And this day in-particular can often drum home the feeling of being a second class citizen, low on the pecking order in the family. Mom is getting roses, dinner, etc. and the Step-Moms of the world sometimes get overlooked. Think about it— When is the last time you saw a really great “Happy Mother’s Day Step-Mom” card?
    So, if you know a Step-Mom please give them a shout out.
    Thank you for your indulgence!

    • susan says:

      Thank you Dr. Bloshka. LMAO.

      • Duchess of Dryer Lint says:

        Huh? I wanna laugh, but I must confess ignorance–who is Dr. Bloshka?

        • susan says:

          This was my reply to Bloska’s post. I put it in th wring place. sorry.

        • housewifeaddict says:

          I think that was directed at the comment one above yours. As for yours, well said. My step mother wasn’t someone I was too close with, and she had a very unhappy marriage with my father. I tried to help a few times and stick up for her, but by the end of the marriage it was such a toxic environment that I dreaded visiting. I was glad when she left him to start a new life, but by then our relationship was broken, and we don’t stay in touch. He’s not happy being along either. Deep sigh.

    • jeepers1941 says:

      DoDL,
      Ditto, and very well said. thank you for remembering those step-moms out there. Being a step-mom is not easy……Jeepers

    • quincyil says:

      Happy Mothers Day to all of the Step Moms!

    • fort lauderdale gay says:

      Good Morning Dutchess! Wonderful post. There are so many blended families today. As the saying goes “it takes a village to raise a child”. Whether mother or step mother, today is YOUR DAY! I hope you all hear “Thank you” and most of all “I love you”! My very wise father told me many times growing up “men have it easy. The women of the world are the real leaders. Let’s try to make things a little easier for your Mom and give her a helping hand. She won’t ask for it, but she’s EARNED it.”

    • Rabble Rouser says:

      Yes, loving step moms should absolutely be included.

    • @tweatcyn says:

      Well said Duchess. The movie Step Mom is a great example.

      • lovemamaearth says:

        ==Cindy “Beaver Barbershop’s” Bravo Blog ==

        ROFL That’s funny.

    • Christine says:

      Step-mom here too. Thank you for recognizing our part in these childrens’ lives.

  27. Amber...Real Wife says:

    Happy Mother’s Day to All! Hope everyone will have a wonderful time with all of their loved ones of the two legged and four legged variety. ;)

    A few things on my mind…

    “Ramona is a drunk”. ITA with posters who feel this is a opportunistic storyline, instigated by Jillzilla, Dasboot & Kookadoodledoo. I’m sure Jill watched RHBH with awe as Kim’s reputation was decimated by her sister and castmates with just the word “alcoholic”. After the allegation made by Kyle, all insinuations by Lisa and Taylor were made to collaborate Kyle’s story. While all HW’s and husbands are known to drink like fish, Kim was the first one outed as having a problem.

    Jill must’ve lost her shit, seeing that she could’ve annihilated Ramona and her businesses long ago but decided she could still have her vengeance. Jizz proceeded to conspire with her minions to out RamonaOfPinotGrigio as an alcoholic. It would be easy to do as Ramona has been the butt of many drinking jokes. They would have to appear concerned, fearful, critical and point out every lapse of judgement by Ramona and blame the drinking. Easy breezey pinot squeezey.

    I don’t know if Ramona is an alchie, but it seems to me that she drinks after hours, on her days off in social events and as the boss can/does do the liquid lunch also. To drink wine at noon is not unheard of at afternoon parties and to be sloshed by 5pm would be expected. To be known for liking a drink isn’t terrible as any good host would want to accomodate their guests. Lastly a drunk person speaks a sober mind, so what Ramona says when sloshed is what she thinks when sober, as she’s filterless dry and extremely unfiltered sopping wet! LOL

    As for Cindy joining the brunettes, it seemed only natural that her friendship with Ramona would be tested once she joined the show. This show has a way of straining relationships (see Bethenny/Jill, Jeanna/Vicki, Peggy/Alexis, Vicki/Laurie, Nene/ATL cast etc.) What is amazing is that she’d choose to battle Ramona who introduced her to all and is known to be a vicious fighter. LOL She purposely didn’t have Ramona’s pinot. She knew it would annoy Ramona as she’d offered to bring it if needed. Cindy’s refusal to serve Ramona’s drink was a passive agressive slap at Ramona for annoying her brother and also to show Ramona she’s not that important. Cindy, proving herself to be an ungrateful, shit stirring, secret spreading gossip should’ve been taken down a peg or two by Sonja. While the delivery may have seemed extreme, some of it was true. Ramona introduced her, Ramona is known and Ramona, unlike the others, will have your back when the going gets rough.

    Finally I will say that I think Cindy has the most horrible style and look which no one HW is criticizing. To the contrary, they keep saying she looks great! Ha! Meanwhile she’s dressing like an old slack jawed punk hag who wears rags and is the spitting image of MaryHartman, MaryHartman. Loogies included!

    • Duchess of Dryer Lint says:

      Mary Hartman! HAH! love it!

    • Rabble Rouser says:

      If your post were a desert, it would be delicious.

    • Golden Girl says:

      Well said Amber! ITA

    • nathania says:

      I wish they would lay off Ramona because the issue of who is an alcoholic on a housewives show is like the issue of who is a foodie on Top Chef or something, just about ALL of them drink wayyyyyyyy too much.

      Except for Jill and I just hope to god she’s not ‘recovering’ because if so she’s about the worst advertisement for AA that ever came down the pike.

      It’s interesting to me that even with Ramona’s rumored over-indulgence she is a nicer person than the people who are accusing her of over-drinking.

      I have such mixed feelings about Cindy. I like Cindy and I would hang out with Cindy. Probably far sooner than anyone on this show except Alex. I just think she is horribly out of place here.

  28. quincyil says:

    I looked at a great deal of research on the topic of Luann’s title yesterday. I was given a photo on line of the tombstone of the father of Ferdinand de Lesseps. The tombstone has no mention of a title, but rather had the awards that he had been given by France for his life time of service as a diplomat and government officials. I was given links to the papers of Napolean I’s brother concerning the battle that Luann claims her husband’s father was involved with. I was given lists of the aristocracy from France.

    The New York Times obituary published at the time of Ferdinand’s death addresses him as Count. At times, his biographies address his as Viscomte, the equivalent of a vicount.

    I believe after sharing with another person researching that Ferdinand’s father had the title bestowed, but the use of these titles was abolished and resestablished serveral times as the French attempted to create new governments at the the chaos of the French Revolution. The French even attempted to resestablish a democracy at one point.

    It is likely that having a title was not popular at the time of his death.

    As was noted here, Luann’s title is a courtesy title. She can insist that her coworkers, the pizza guy, and the limo driver address her properly, but they are not required to call her Countess in the USA or any where else.

    I think the game she is playing is part of her way of being important in the Manhattan/Hamptons society. People like Jill are impressed and they impress others with by saying they are friends with a Countess.

    I know that we discussed this several times here in the past. We really looked and one of us has read the biography of Ferdinand de Lesseps. We looked at Luann’s husband’s geneology.

    We think the family had the title and they want to keep it as their legacy. Little money was passed down, but they feel important because one of their ancestors was important.

    Q

    • indy anna says:

      You are so damned smart, and still you muck stalls.

      • quincyil says:

        It’s really good exercise. I just came in from a ride in the forest jumping over fallen tries and crossing creek beds. I will muck everday if I can have a few horse on trails.

    • housewifeaddict says:

      Was this the title that had something to do with the Suez canal, or am I mixing apples and oranges in my old brain?

      • kotagirl29 says:

        I don’t know remember where I read it, but I also remember reading something regarding titles being bestowed upon people who were not above a bit of criminal activity and others just plain bought their titles. It sounds like just about anyone could get a title.

      • housewifeaddict says:

        Answered my own question – but it seems like the family was raised to nobility in 1777 before this Ferdinand guy was born.

        http://www.napoleon.org/en/special_dossier/suez/html-content/historique/txt-002.html

        • quincyil says:

          Ferdinand’s father was quite young so I think it’s like the family of Anne and Mary Bolyen where governmental leaders werer greatful so they handed out titles Ferdinand’s uncle and a lot of relatives.

          • Kukulet says:

            Also note that Ferdinand’s father was a first cousin to Empress Eugenie. It’s entirely possible that there was a little nepotism involved there.

            My understanding, though, is that after many years of titles being abolished and reinstated through the fluctuations of the government, Ferdinand paid to have the title confirmed through the French Ministry of Justice (Bureau du droit Civil Général) and that is why Alexandre holds it today.

            • quincyil says:

              He had honors in Canada and in the US and they addressed him as count.

              I am not impressed by that degree. I am impressed by scientists and scholars. I am impressed by artists.

              Being dumped by a guy descended from someone does not impress me.

              • Kukulet says:

                Who had honors in Canada and the US – Ferdinand or Alexandre?

                If Ferdinand, I didn’t say he wasn’t a Count. He was. But he might have been the last if he hadn’t paid to secure the title. :-)

                Prince William isn’t the Prince of Wales – he’s Prince William OF Wales, and now, additionally, the Duke of Cambridge. Prince Charles is the Prince of Wales. :-)

                • Kukulet says:

                  P.S. I agree with you, Empress – a courtesy title is not an accomplishment, not in itself, and not by marriage.

                • quincyil says:

                  Ferdinand….

                  My fellow researcher said that she thought he had paid to secure it.

                  • Kukulet says:

                    Yes.

                    In any case, there is no such thing as nobility in France today, so “Count” is really just a part of Alexandre’s name, not a rank. Only the pretentious souls like LuAnn attach importance to it.

                    “The Countess” still pees the same way as everyone else.

      • quincyil says:

        Not the title came from Ferdinand’s father who was a diplomat and served in various civil service positions. Ferdinand’s uncle was a very important man in the goverment too. I think they bestowed titles like the Queen did on the Prince of Wales turning him into a Duke.

        I would be more impressed if Luann graduated from a 4 year BS nursing program, but that is just me.

        • quincyil says:

          Note the title…lol

          • fort lauderdale gay says:

            Empress,
            What has stuck in my crawl from the beginning was when LPN Squash Blossom High Horse stated that the de Lesseps “gave” the Statue of Liberty to the USA. The proper term is PRESENTED. If Whoopi Goldberg is on an awards show and hands you your statue, she’s not GIVING you the award, she is PRESENTING it to you. The academy is granting you the award. Such puffery!

    • Amber...Real Wife says:

      Thanks for all the research Q, but we all know that the turquoise using, brown boot abusing, passive agressive Lurch is no Countess! She chooses to use the title as the “4th” wife of a Count even after divorce to try to remain relevant. But (like Phaedra says) everybody knows as soon as the child support is done for her kids she’ll be looking to remarry quick!

      When she was married to the Count many said she was a serial cheater, and later she admitted they had an open relationship. I remember her son begging her to stay home and Rosie (her “girl”) the housekeeper, saying that both parents were rarely home and the children needed their parents. Now that Dasboot is the primary custodial parent, and the children are teens she chooses to spend a few days a week in NYC while they live in the Hamptons.

      Is there any surprise then that we learned that Victoria, who had broken her arm sneaking out age 14, was captured smoking, drinking and using racial slurs at 15 or 16 post divorce? TurqoiseLu was insulted when Ramona called her a PT mother, even though she was using fuzzy math to explain her schedule. Later as we know, Ramona retweets the video of Victoria, I believe, to show Luman what her daughter was doing while she was doing FrenchieLePew. Unfortunately it was the tweet heard round the HW universe and proved the Countless indeed does threesomes. She was screwed by her love of JuaackLePew and Ramona’s unfiltered ass in one shot! LOL

    • WindyCityWondering says:

      Alex’s family was in construction with financial scandal involved and they were never royality – the title was bought and today it has some ability to open doors in a select European circle. LuAnn was a model who caught the eye of an old guy with a lifestyle she thought was cool. Her living the life experience likely was one of being seen and not heard. This all smacks posturing to me – she has done nothing notworthy with her “title” and Bethenny’s reaction of get over yourself to her was genuine. Boiled down – legacy founded with Guidice style construction company then and now has no relevence. The fact that LuAnn uses her title incorrectly begs one to wonder if she really is an authority on anything other than pretending to be someone she clear is not.

      • quincyil says:

        Ferdinand and Charles, his son were tried and sentence to prison. Charles went for a short time.

        • fort lauderdale gay says:

          ZsaZsa’s husband has more right to claim his title of Prince. At least he paid someone to ADOPT him for the title.

          • quincyil says:

            I have three nephews who are Sayyid, direct descendents of Mohammed through Fatima, the oldest daughter and only daughter of the first wife. Mohammed is a bigger deal than Ferdinand de Lesseps. Billions of people follow Mohammed. Just saying,

            Q

    • Caitlin says:

      Thanks for the research! If Luann were not so rude and condescending, I’d almost feel sorry for her. The fact that she not only hangs on to her former husband’s name, (much less his honorary title!) tells me that she has not “moved on” with her life at all. And I know from my own experience (divorce from a locally prominent person after 30 years), that I did not know who I was on my own until I took back my maiden name and returned to the world of work in anonymity. Result is that I am happier then ever, and I wouldn’t want to be referred to as “Mrs. So-and-So” (much less “Countess So-amd-So”!) for all the tea in China. What a sad example she is setting for her own daughter — that it is not enough to be who she is without a man.

      • kotagirl29 says:

        I also went back to my maiden name, in part because my ex-husband’s last name gets butchered when people try to pronounce it, but mostly because it wasn’t MY name. My Mom has been married and divorced 3 times and after the last one decided she’d had enough and went back to her maiden name which she hadn’t used since in 45 years.

  29. WindyCityWondering says:

    In order to rise in your chosen social circle (pecking order) someone else must sink. Trying to take Ramona down as a “drunk” really doesn’t work for me. She likes her wine, she doesn’t get mean or sloppy, it is part of her social not professional world. We see the unemployed LuAnn and Sonja having champaign at lunch. In fact in Sonja’s short tenure on the show she is frequently drunk. Kelly who doesn’t drink has an afinity with beer. Cindy rewards herself with martinis with the reason that she works hard and deserves them. And then we have the diet coke only Jill (which could mean she had a problem with alcohol because she won’t even toast with alcohol). IMO, drunk label won’t take Ramona down but will make her accusers look poorly considering their drinking habits.

    • housewifeaddict says:

      Ramona speaks her mind, drunk or sober, but she has been on the show as two sheet to the wind (turtle time), while most of the others are just shown drinking.

      However – for the most part Ramona is also just drinking. She’s said some of her “meaner” thing stone cold sober – like her walk with Bethenny over the bridge.

      But Ramona has never been shy about her Pinot Grigio – and this season is on overdrive to market it – Pinotgrigiopinogriopinogrigio – and has mentioned it about a zillion times.

      Was she drunk a Cindy’s lame kiddie party, or just Ramotional about the cigar incident. Cindy’s brother acted like an ass to her, and continues to act like an ass. Who rubs it in someone’s face that they have their dead friend’s stuff. It’s made Ramona upset and she needs to talk about it – big deal. They knew she was coming and could have figured out a time to sit down and clear the air – instead of hiding from her like little children. Urgh.

    • fort lauderdale gay says:

      I think Jill’s diet coke only approach means one of three things:
      1) She just doesn’t drink. There are those who just don’t like alcohol.
      2) She may be on medication that you shouldn’t mix with alcohol.
      3) She may have had a problem in the past and quit drinking.

      If it’s number three, IMO she meets the criteria of a “dry drunk”:
      “Those who quit drinking but are still angry about it, wind up living miserable lives and usually make everyone else around them miserable too.”

      The top three signs of Dry Drunk Syndrome are:
      1) Grandiosity-“self-centered in the extreme”
      2) Impulsivity – A common attitude or observable behavior of people with addiction problems is poor impulse control. We tend to do what we want when we want, with little regard for self harm or hurting others around us. Impulsivity can be linked with grandiosity to engage in behaviors designed to make us the center of attention.
      3) Being judgmental – When we judge a person as being better than or less than, we are setting up a situation where we inflate our egos feeling better than other people.

      • Golden Girl says:

        Ding ding ding we have a winner!

      • jeepers1941 says:

        OMG, thats our JILL in a nut shell :)
        Thank you FLG

      • AZ Girl says:

        Wow that does sound like Jill.

      • kotagirl29 says:

        I don’t know if I think she’s a dry drunk. I think it’s more along the lines that she doesn’t drink so that she stays in control and then can keep an accurate accounting of what everyone else did when they were drunk. To hold it over them forever and/or tell others what happened.

        • Amber...Real Wife says:

          ABSOLUTELY! ITA She’s NO DRY DRUNK. People like Jill are the human recorders, watching everything to later report it to others with a touch of spin to boot! Everyone doesn’t have to drink, but they should also enjoy events, and not sit off gossiping, watching the crowd for new material.

          JillzillaGuerilla is a sober sniper out in plain view gathering intel and assasinating her fellow party goers. WOW :0 Who knew she was so tactical, tacky yes, tactical…Who’da thunk it?

      • WindyCityWondering says:

        Why I believe she may have had a problem in the past is because she always has to tell everyone she only drinks diet coke with an insinuated put down to those who do drink.

      • DarkSonnet says:

        Finally!! I had a little personal lottery going on here for guessing when somebody would finally post the Dry Drunk Syndrome theory.

        Jill Zarin is the absolute epitome of Dry Drunk Syndrome in addition to being an absolute b*tch, probably learned at her mother’s knee. A two-for-one deadly combo.

        Note that she has a “structured replacement”, only drinking her one brand diet beverage of choice. Not only does she not drink alcohol, she has NO variance on her non-alcoholic beverage.

        A controlled addictive maneuver.

      • Nancy says:

        Are you a friend of Bill W?

      • quincyil says:

        She is always calorie counting. It could be that she would rather have an apple or a sandwich than a alcoholic beverage.

      • nathania says:

        she really does because she is the meanest cuss on tv or one of them, certainly not a billboard for any type of recovery plus I believe that if she could get any press at all for having sad tale of woe with drinking she’d have exploited it long ago, it might be something incompatible with alcohol, some medication that she has to take.

        another possibility is abstinence a la Kathy Griffin, and also my mother, both of whom grew up with alcoholic parents and therefore do not drink at all. Alot of children of alcoholics revile alcohol because of how they and their families suffered. This makes more sense than anything to me because Zarin seems like an incredibly damaged person and you don’t get this way in a perfectly functional family.

  30. firepainter says:

    Happy Mom’s Day to all the mothers out there.

    Speaking of the pecking order, does anyone remember this song from the Music Man:

    Pick a little, talk a little, pick a little, talk a little,
    cheep cheep cheep, talk a lot, pick a little more
    Pick a little, talk a little, pick a little, talk a little,
    cheep cheep cheep, talk a lot, pick a little more
    Pick a little, talk a little, pick a little, talk a little,
    Cheep cheep cheep cheep cheep cheep cheep cheep
    Cheep cheep cheep cheep cheep cheep cheep cheep
    Cheep cheep cheep cheep cheep cheep cheep cheep
    Pick a little, talk a little, cheep!

    I’m off to visit my MIL. I lucked out and have the sweetest in-laws.

  31. housewifeaddict says:

    Happy Mother’s Day,

    We’re heading to MILs for lunch with the rest of hubby’s family. I got my dinner last night with my kids.

    On a completely separate topic – pots shouldn’t call kettles black – so LuAnn should watch who she calls a drunk. I’m sure you all remember this nice piece of gossip from 2008 when she was still hitting the social scene. As mentioned yesterday, she seems to be a switch hitter. Enjoy the gawwwsip.

    http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2008/08/luann_de_lesseps_gets_real_tra.html

    Titles can’t be you class.

    • housewifeaddict says:

      buy

    • AZ Girl says:

      She was three sheets to the wind. Fell down in the parking lot. I think the Count had enough crap and headed back to Europe.

      • WindyCityWondering says:

        And they had to pry a microphone out of her hands because not many people know that she loves to sing…

        • quincyil says:

          I always wondered why she was in NYC and he in Europe. She lived there 16 years, why not stay in Europe. Isn’t college free there?

    • fort lauderdale gay says:

      I’ve heard from someone I think would know, that article was actually pretty kind to the Count and Countess. There is an advantage to being in Fort Lauderdale….a lot of East Coasters pass through and/or come here for vacation. You hear a lot of things and many of them end up being proven true. Many of us also go up there to escape the summer heat down here. The Hamptons, Fire Island and Provincetown are all quite popular destinations for the “Where the Boys Are” crowd. My people like to dish.

      • fort lauderdale gay says:

        There is also a Florida connection to the wedding where it all took place. It was the wedding Jill’s BFF Mrs. (closet case) Charlie Crist’s ex-husband Todd Rome. I’ll bet Charlie (since he lost his election), Carole, Jacques and Squash Bloom are going to have a wonderful time in the Hamptons this summer…..

        • Zoey says:

          Hey, have you ever been to that big party in the Hamptons, outside under a large tent, shown on HW’s where Bethenny, Lumann and Jill were dancing and flirting with all the men who were totally not interested in them or their gender? Lol.

          • fort lauderdale gay says:

            I’ve been to many of those. From Fire Island all the way to South Beach. I refer to myself as a “high mileage” model. It’s like a car…..it still looks really good on the outside, paint is beautiful. Then you get into it and look at the odometer……275,341 miles on it……

            • fort lauderdale gay says:

              The women always have a great time. They know they are safe, can let loose, have fun and dance. We do try to look after them….in a VERY platonic way!

              • kotagirl29 says:

                You have to get some Kim Z types there that are drooling over and trying to “convert” some of you.

              • kotagirl29 says:

                I used to have a great time going out with my friend Robert. I had a great dance partner, someone to make catty comments with, and if we were in a “straight” bar I didn’t get bothered because I was with a man.

                • fort lauderdale gay says:

                  Kota- I hope you see this. I want to thank you for my French lessons last night. My troublesome neighbor is probably going to think that he has been visited by Cat O.

                  • kotagirl29 says:

                    Glad to help. I can throw a few more down, but not many. And I have compliments ttoo. Okay only one: très bien derriere.

              • Nancy says:

                That was the best part of being part of Holiday-on-Ice.

        • quincyil says:

          You are kidding, that was the husband? Wow…. Jill is friends with Carole, but I am surprised she was also friends with the ex -huband.

          Thanks for sharing.

          • fort lauderdale gay says:

            He has a company that leases and charters private jets. Is Jill still friends with him? You better believe it! That’s where she got the plane to fly Ally around.

  32. AZ Girl says:

    OT: We have two bird’s nests in our back yard. I have been watching the birds “tag team” to feed their babies this morning. One bird flies out of the nest to get food for the babies when the other flies in. Really beautiful to watch especially on Mother’s Day.

    • Golden Girl says:

      Same here I woke up early to watch them and it totally reminded me of Mothers Day :-)

      • Mookies1mom says:

        We have a nest in the eves of our porch right by our back door. It freaks the bird out every time we open the back door. But once we are in for the night the bird settles down and sleeps away.

    • Zoey says:

      That’s so sweet. Oh wait, don’t the parents have to eat and regurgitate it in order to feed it to the babies? Glad I’m not a bird, I have a weak stomach! Lol

  33. Mookies1mom says:

    Totally off topic. But I came across Peggy’s photo that Bravo uses, the one with her in a pink dress. I showed Mookie’s dad just the head shot and asked him how old do you think this woman is? He replied “53″. She is my age! I guess botox and plastic surgery really don’t help all that much.

    • AZ Girl says:

      Mookie’s Dad is very perceptive. I think Peggy is really unattractive and really all of them just start to look the same after all the surgery. Blond, big boobies, fat lips, and bad skin from too much sun.

  34. Mookies1mom says:

    I thought so too! I was really surprised that she is my age! I thought all the crap they do to themselves was supposed to make them look younger/better. I’m not saying I look like a teenager or anything of the sort. But Mookie’s dad does not like the plastic surgery look either. He doesn’t watch any of the show’s so he doesn’t know that they all pretty much look like this.

    • WindyCityWondering says:

      On the OC there seems to be a standard (hugh boobs, high cheek implants, immobilized faces, blown up lips and over processed hair) of beauty that is accepted by their peers. That said – they all look fake and the same to the rest of us – my husband made a comment that the OC should wear numbers, like a sports team, because he couldn’t tell them apart – and frankly neither could I for the longest time.

      • fort lauderdale gay says:

        If Marisol’s mother moves to OC, he’ll be able to tell the difference! (no offense Elsa, but what the hell happened? I’ll give to you, you did keep your sense of humor!)

    • Okie Folkie says:

      I do not like when a woman cant raise her eye brows (HI! Taylor/Shanna and sooo many more) or have any facial expressions at all. I dont know why any one would even wanna do that.

      A few weeks ago Caroline Kennedy was on “The Colbert Report”. I was happy to see her raise her eye brows and have every facial expression there is. Even her wrinkles were/are pretty. She doesnt do that fake fake stuff, so thats good enough for me.
      IMO, Caroline Kennedy is complete CLASS.
      This has been a PSA…beep…beeep….beeeeepp, PSA o.v.e.r. ;)

      • fort lauderdale gay says:

        I REALLY respect her. She’s had so much tragedy to deal with and has somehow kept it together. I don’t know how she’s done it. I would have caved in.

        • Okie Folkie says:

          Oh yeah, that is so true! I’ve had to handle a lot, but not nearly as much as Caroline. I would’ve caved, too.
          She so cool.

          And, how many books has she written, I’m pretty sure its several.
          When she was on Colbert she had a new book.

          I couldnt help but think what a true beauty! Especially with her facial expressions.

  35. Adgirl says:

    I have been so turned off by the show this season because of the unrelenting beat down of Ramona and Alex.

    Jill and LuAnn are a powerful tag team. They take turns keeping Kelly happy, secure and up to date on this week’s victim so now the mean girl’s outnumber the rest of the ladies. Cindy is choosing their side because she doesn’t have cojones to take them on herself.

    the RHNY behave like a pack of wolves.
    I saw a documentary about wolf packs in Yellowstone. In wolf packs there is a hierarchy. Alpha leader (organizer), Beta (enforcer) and Omega is the scapegoat who is beat up by the whole pack as a stress reliever to keep order among the rest of the pack.

    RHNY
    Alpha Organizer: Jill Zarin
    Beta Enforcer: LuAnn
    Omega Season 1,2: Alex McCord
    Omega Season 3: Bethenny Frankel
    Omega Season 4: Ramona Singer

    Interestingly enough, it is possible for Omegas to rise to Alpha positions.

    If someone started a whispering campaign against LuAnn and blamed it on Jill, LuAnn could be moved to change sides. LuAnn is by far the most insecure woman on RHNY. If Ramona were wily, she could push those little buttons of LuAnn’s and undermine her relationship with Jill.. Luckily for LuAnn most the disgusting revelations about her private life occurred when the show was not airing so the press coverage was minimal.

    I’m rooting for Ramona to fight back.

    Some charming examples of LuAnn’s “Class”:

    http://starcasm.net/archives/40333

    http://gawker.com/#!5192387/countess-luann-stealing-end-of-the-affair-kisses

    http://www.realfauxhousewives.com/2010/04/14/luann-de-lesseps-behaves-like-a-classles-cuntass-in-public/

    • WindyCityWondering says:

      Cindy is already in trouble with Sonja and Ramona – Jill is being very nice to her – come on over to the dark side Cindy Lu…..

    • Maryla says:

      Poor Luann — it seems the on-paper-only countess was traded-in for an actual princess. Count Alex hooked up with a three-decades younger daughter of an actual Ethiopian king.

      Schadenfreude.

  36. Adgirl says:

    Someone bail me out of spam can plz.

    • Okie Folkie says:

      I would bail you out, if I knew how, or had the authority to do so!

      But, what I can do is hang out with you while yer in jail! Is that OK?

      Yoooo-Hoooo! Somebody lets get a can opener or a key!

    • quincyil says:

      I will go not to look.

      • quincyil says:

        I meant, “I will go now to look.”

        You and several others got “get out of jail” cards. I think it has something to do with the links.

        When this happens, just give me a heads up and I will rescue you.

        • lovemamaearth says:

          Does that mean they can’t post? Or the comments are waiting moderation? Or something else?

      • Adgirl says:

        nevermind- I edited the objectionable links out.

  37. @tweatcyn says:

    Peggy’s “before” pics on Bravo show a pretty natural blonde. It’s really a shame she ruined her looks this way.

    Great analysis on pecking order Q. Thanks for clearing up the Francois attention debate.

    Loved the 2008 article on Drunk Das Boot. Never saw that before.

    Here’s Bethenny’s (imagined) views on Cindy Beaver Barbershop’s Bravo Blog: Happy Mother’s Day. Here’s my tribute to Cindy Beaver Barbershop. New What Would Bethenny Say? Blog: http://tweattwaddle.blogspot.com/2011/05/what-would-bethenny-say-cindy-beaver.html

  38. Adgirl says:

    Charming example of LuAnn’s “Class” 1 of 3

    http://starcasm.net/archives/40333

    Charming example of LuAnn’s “Class” 2 of 3

    http://gawker.com/#!5192387/countess-luann-stealing-end-of-the-affair-kisses

  39. Adgirl says:

    I have been so turned off by the show this season because of the unrelenting beat down of Ramona and Alex.

    Jill and LuAnn are a powerful tag team. They take turns keeping Kelly happy, secure and up to date on this week’s victim so now the mean girl’s club outnumber the rest of the ladies. Cindy is choosing their side because she doesn’t have cojones to take them on herself.

    I saw a documentary about wolf packs in Yellowstone park.
    The RHNY behave like a pack of wolves. In wolf packs there is a hierarchy (pecking order if you prefer). Alpha leader – organizer, Beta – enforcer and the poor Omega is the scapegoat who is beat up by the whole pack as a stress reliever and to keep order among the rest of the pack.

    RHNY
    Alpha Organizer: Jill Zarin
    Beta Enforcer: LuAnn
    Omega Season 1,2: Alex McCord
    Omega Season 3: Bethenny Frankel
    Omega Season 4: Ramona Singer

    Interestingly enough, it is possible for Omegas to rise to Alpha positions.

    If someone started a whispering campaign against LuAnn and blamed it on Jill, LuAnn could be moved to change sides. LuAnn is by far the most insecure woman on RHNY.

    If Ramona were wily, she could push those little buttons of LuAnn’s insecurity and undermine her relationship with Jill.. Luckily for LuAnn most the disgusting revelations about her private life occurred when the show was not airing so the press coverage was minimal.

    I’m rooting for Ramona to fight back.

    • quincyil says:

      I never want to fight. I prefer to take a nap.

      • Smompy says:

        Yes, I saw that show too. Fascinating wasn’t it? The funny part is that the wolves assert their dominance over other members of the pack a lot more peacefully than our ho-wives do. With wolves it’s usually about posing and threatening, but with Lulu and the other, ahem, ladies, the goal seems to be to draw blood and then retreat quickly. I suppose they’re actually more like vipers than wolves.

        p.s.
        Happy Muthah’s Day, all you Muthahs out there…what’s left of it I mean:)

  40. quincyil says:

    I put my twitter name on the board. It’s 3:09 PM central on 5/8/11.

    We will see how long it takes for Jill Zarin or her assistant Darren/lisanewengland to ban me from her twitter. I never tweeted her, just followed.

    • Okie Folkie says:

      I can t wait to see what happens! I hope she wont block you. We will soon see what a classy lady Shill is or is not.

      • quincyil says:

        She does not like it when I write about her.

        I checked, they must be off for Mother’s Day because I am not blocked yet.

  41. HD says:

    Happy Mother’s Day!

  42. cabbie413 says:

    i’m watching alex arguing with Sonja now and watching it the 2nd time around.. sheesh.. Alex looks and acts horrible, even though Sonja was actually “wrong” lol I really hope she straightens up her posture. It is absolutely horrible!

  43. Okie Folkie says:

    I’m not sure if this has been posted or if anyone might be interested….I didnt like what this person had to say about our Alex & Simon.

    http://absurdtosublime.net/2011/05/07/are-the-real-housewives-of-new-york-pecking-the-franchise-to-death/

    • cabbie413 says:

      I thought their commentary was actually spot on

      • Zoey says:

        Ok I’m, going to go and read it and be the tie-breaker, hehe. My mind is all foggied up though, because Rob. I. Tussin and I have been going at it since yesterday. I could never do drugs…

    • quincyil says:

      Two paragraphs on Simon and Alex.

      Well, it’s opinion. It seems that the larger/more popular gossip sites are conjecture and opinion also.

      Of course, Alex and Simon have to work. They are like the rest of us and we all have to work. Only Jill doesn’t have to work. I suspect Kelly is not working either, but her many assistants claim that she is working.

      I have thought a lot about the hotel job and why he quit. It happened just after the book was out and they had started going to book signings on weekends. It also happened after Jill Zarin said what she said. Alex alluded to this in the discussion. She actually said that Jill did things to harm Simon’s work. We all know that is true. This is the reason this site exists.

      I think the fact that Simon’s father had died and he did not have a father at the age of his sons is a very significant factor in that equation.

      Simon had a carreer in consultancy at one time and he has gone back into that field.

      I have a son in computers and he worked for consultancy companies and for companies directly. People do go from one employer to being self employed by choice every single day.

      They certainly all went all over the country for that book. You can’t just travel on Sat and Sun. I bet that they looked at the hours he worked at the hotel and the potential for what he could make when he created a business and took a gamble.

      Hey, it’s very American to shoot for the gold ring. I like people who work hard and go for the gold ring.

      I did think that Alex and Simon had made peace with Jill, but it seems they have signed an Armistace with restrictions. If Jill continues to do those cruel things, I suspect they will not be on team Jill.

      We watch the show and read some, but there is always something going on behind the closed doors.

      4:46 PM still not blocked by Jill Zarin on twitter. She usually reads this board just after dinner time.

      • housewifeaddict says:

        Did you really post your twitter name, or are you just messing with her? LOLOLOL

      • AZ Girl says:

        Just finished watching Simon’s Webisode and he is good with the boys. Simon emphasis is on manners and full sentences and he shows by example. I thinks for their boy’s sake they are “keeping the peace” with Jill but if Jill goes “postal” they will cut her off. I feel like the twitter blockage is competing with the countdown of the Endeavor. HA!

      • WindyCityWondering says:

        It would not benefit Alex or Simon to actually come out and say that Jill’s viciousness regarding “those”photographs was one of the reasons Simon is changing careers. They need RHNY for income and to help market whatever enterprises they are developing. Social media as a business tool is wide open. Simon may be developing a proposed model that will help enable firms to increase their presence in their target markets.

  44. Zoey says:

    Question- forgive me if it’s been discussed. Has CBarstool posted any explanation or commented on what many of us see as lies?

    • WindyCityWondering says:

      Not yet and IMO she won’t because she doesn’t understand the game yet. So far she seems to be sort of put out by all the drama and won’t be gaining fans unless she gets honest with her crap.

      • Okie Folkie says:

        I dont see how these women will sign up for a TV show & right outta the gate begin lying. Its all good by me. Ms. Barstool has stated she is on “Team Brunette”, IMO that equals “Team Liars”. All of ‘em seem to lie on “Team Brunette”.

        Cindy is off-putting, to me.

        • housewifeaddict says:

          Cindy is an out and out liar.
          Kelly is delusional.
          Jill reinvents the truth.
          LuLu thinks it’s socially correct to mislead and skirt the truth.
          Ramona tells the truth – even if it would be more polite to say nothing.
          Alex seems to recognize and tell the truth, without being impolite for the most part – the exception being the scene at Sonja’s house.

          • kotagirl29 says:

            I lack a filter, except online. I have noticed that if someone doesn’t know me in person, the intended tone never comes across online. In person, I am truthful (some say to a fault). So posting here is helpful because I check myself. In person, I have hurt people’s feelings unitentionally because if it’s in my head it comes out of my mouth. I have gotten better as I get older, but not much. I still don’t talk about people I know behind their back though. I will say to their face good and bad. Don’t get me wrong though, I will laugh at a complete stranger behind my hand or their back. Maybe not nice, but what can I say. . .

  45. HD says:

    Watching some NY episodes again….I loved when Kelly was imitating Luann and said, “dahhhhhhhhhling must we talk about landscaping?” LOL! Too funny!

    Luann acts like she is so innocent, like she is not banging Ross the Wine Maker. “Must we talk about landscaping.” Why did you think you were in Cindy’s salon, to talk about tea and crumpets?

    • WindyCityWondering says:

      LuAnn fancys herself an ingenue when in reality she is a cougar. As for the wine peddler – he just wants semi (has to sleep with the viper) free marketing in the US.

  46. housewifeaddict says:

    Alert to those who aren’t reading upthread. Simon (I believe the real one) visited at 1:30 blog time, in response to the post by this poster:

    Bloshka says:
    May 8, 2011 at 10:39 am

    He came in to clear up some misinformation that was posted about Alex and the chums. Didn’t Quincy tweet him earlier today??

    • AZ Girl says:

      Why do I get the feeling that Bloshka is a minion of Jill. I do not remember every reading a post from Bloshka here and to have one posted that was very malicious about the chums ON MOTHER’S DAY makes me very suspicious.

      • VAgirl says:

        I’ve seen a few from him/her before, but not many.

      • Okie Folkie says:

        I’m not sure, but I did think that person was posting yesterday. I didnt go back & check the name sounded familiar though. And if I am remembering correctly, they/he/she/it wasnt being very kind to the board in general or Alex & Simon.

        I havent been posting here all that long, but I am wondering, has there been an increase in the number of newer ‘posters’/ ‘members’? I’m just a lil curious. This is a very fun place, filled with so many funny folks!

        • kotagirl29 says:

          There is always a degree of poster turnover. I have been posting off and on for almost a year and you will always see some new come and some regulars go. But I have noticed on the night of new shows and the day after there are always a few that post a few times then disappear. I wouldn’t be surprised if some came multiple times with different names. I know that Bloshka (sp?) was posting yesterday during the early part of the autism/aspergers debate.

        • kotagirl29 says:

          Okie your a regular now. Technology years pass faster than dog years.
          This place is great! I was drawn because Shill last year and have kept coming back because of the people here. This is the only blog that I read AND actively comment. There is a particular sense of humor that I get and gets me.
          And we talk about EVERYTHING! As much as Shill would like to think it’s all about her, it isn’t.

          • Okie Folkie says:

            Aaaaawwww ((((((Kotagirl))))) you said I’m a regular now. THANKS! That makes me feel good.

            I began reading last year too while the Jill/Beth war was going on, but I didnt begin commenting until a few weeks ago.

            I love the sense of humor & community that are this blog.

      • AZ Girl says:

        I welcome all new posters. I just thought it was insensitive to the chums on Mother’s Day.

    • WindyCityWondering says:

      There are very shrewd troll detectives here and I for one don’t like being suspicious of those who are new to the blog – we all were once upon a time! We all don’t feel the same about every housewife and that is what makes this fun – as long as we are respectful of each other then no harm no foul.

      • Okie Folkie says:

        So true, WCW. I usually try to begin fairly slowly and always introduce myself in the 1st post of a new community. Some folks just dont do that & I get confused. hahaha

        After being part of this community for only a few weeks, I have read where the numbers are up! YAY! (I guess thats a good thing!)
        I was wondering if the number of posters are up or the number of readers (whom dont post) are up? I’m just curious not for any reason in particular…..

        I used to visit the bravo message boards….there are some great folks over there, some of whom I dearly miss. But, I had to take a break last summer….so many gawd awful trolls & some down right physical threats. I’m a lover, dont like fights.

        As Empress Quincy said earlier today, I dont like fights, I’d rather take a nap. (or something like that)
        I like naps. and this here board!

      • kotagirl29 says:

        A couple people thought I was Tamra last Sunday.

        • kotagirl29 says:

          Because I like her and admitted to swearing a lot, offline.

          • Okie Folkie says:

            OMG! thats so funny! I swear a lot offline too. Sometimes ya just gotta.

          • Rabble Rouser says:

            Swear words don’t usually bother me, but I need to watch my words because I have young children. Regrettably, I have had let a an f-bomb fly.

    • quincyil says:

      No, I sent a Happy Mother’s Day to Alex from the people on the board. Someone suggested it. It was tweet number 4. I spent the rest of the day trying to think of something for tweet number 5.

  47. Adgirl says:

    Alex always links her Bravo blog to Simon’s page on their website asking us to read his take on the episode…. except…. he hasn’t written one for many weeks. I wonder if he will ever blog about the show again.

    • Okie Folkie says:

      I wonder why he hasnt written a blog? Too busy maybe.

      • quincyil says:

        I wanted to blog on them. Maybe, the other housewives complained to Alex.

        He really writes well and he shares things that are new to us.

  48. Christine says:

    OT (just a little, considering it is Mother’s Day)
    I just got my Mother’s Day gift – 6 – yes count ‘em – 6 pairs of my favorite shoes. They’re Easy Spirit Travel Time mules (check them out). My husband explained that 3 are from the horses, 2 from the dogs and 1 from him. I’ve died and gone to shoe heaven.
    And yes, all of the Housewives, they’re not Mahnolos or Jimmy Choos, but, IMHO you can keep those ankle breakers and give me comfortable stuff.
    I also want to share with you lovely bloggers. Last night my husband and I went to sleep with the 3 horses in the paddock. The stall doors were wide open and latched back. This AM, Jerry woke me up and said you have to see something. Somehow our Irish Draught/TB X was in Charlie’s stall and one of the hooved ones (I suspect our Haflinger mare, Abby) had actually managed to undo the latch on the bottom door, closing Big Joe in. The evidence (if you know what I mean) was that he had been in there for several hours. Nothing like waking up on Mother’s Day laughing like a crazy person at the horsey hijinks!

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