IHJZ Guest Blog – Real Housewives and Projection

The Real Housewives and Projection by Quincy IL

We share a common interest and that is why we are members of the Lynn Hudson “I hate Jill Zarin” web site. We all found our way here from points all over North America (we have both American and Canadian members) because we love to watch the “Real Housewives of New York City.” Many of us were shell shocked in season three and needed a way to explain our dismay in the behavior of Jill Zarin and her interaction with the other members of the cast. When Jill turned on what we assumed was her best friend, played partial messaged for friends and the audience to here, and refused to speak to her best friend; we needed to discuss what was happening and understand what we were watching.

Some of us recognized that something was “off” with Jill’s behavior from the early days in season one. In Lynn’s early blogs, Lynn and board members noted Jill’s behavior when she was not invited to a small cooking party at Ramona’s Hampton estate. Jill was furious and she wanted to punish Ramona. That seemed odd to many of us. In the beginning of season two,” New York Magazine” profiled Simon and Alex. Simon quipped, “Jill’s from Long Island and that shows.” Jill Zarin went to “Page Six” and said that Simon was a falling down drunk. Many of us gasped and were shocked when Jill’s mother agreed that she would have done the same as Jill. What is the problem with being from Long Island and having that accent? The viewing public could not see the connection that Jill made.

Long, long ago in a blog far away, I gave the definition of projection and my reasons that I felt it played a role in what we were watching on our television screens. Having done a search of the word, “projection,” on Lynn’s blog, many others have made that comment long before and after I did. We are not trained psychologists or psychiatrists, but a lot of us had Psychology 101 in college and watch enough television to see that Jill and many other Bravo reality stars project all over the place.

Since many of us have been out of school for awhile, here is the definition of projection from Wikipedia: “ In Freudian psychology, Psychological projection or projection bias is a psychological defense mechanism where a person unconsciously denies their own attributes, thoughts, and emotions, which are then ascribed to the outside world, such as to the weather, or to other people. Thus, it involves imagining or projecting that others have those feelings.[1]
Projection reduces anxiety by allowing the expression of the unwanted unconscious impulses or desires without letting the conscious mind recognize them.” We all project. Projecting helps us survive. We think that all of our friends think as we do and are shocked when someone disagrees. We do this on the board. We do this with family and friends. It’s a way of saying to ourselves that we are thinking correctly about issues or events. It relieves our anxiety and helps us cope with daily life. Jill would never state that she was ashamed that she grew up on Long Island, but there was something about Simon’s comment that made her go to war. My guess was this was subconscious and Jill did not know it was happening.

Jill and Gloria share a perception of what Camille Grammer called, “the pecking order.” Manhattan is above Long Island (and probably Brooklyn.) Simon of Brooklyn and Australia commenting on Long Island, clicked (or clucked since we are discussing pecking order) in Jill’s mind. She went to war. Thanks to Gloria, Jill felt confident that she did the right thing. Bethenny enjoyed the catfight, but she may have spent enough hours on the couch to know what was really going on.

There is an example of group projection in OC that reminds me of our board discussion on Halloween of the Salem Witch trials. It was the crowning moment last season at Lynn Curtain squatter beach house dinner party. For those of use who have watched the OC girls for years, we know that Vicki complains about the amount of work she has nonstop. Her daughter tells us that she understands her mom’s anxiety over work and sees that it causes high blood pressure. When Vicki was upset by Simon’s comments and the conversation during the dinner, she wanted to escape and said that she had to go to work early in the morning. Her husband seconded that excuse. Each of the other ladies and their husbands freaked out. They ripped Vicki to shreds because she implied that they were failure and did not work. Every one of them projected as those young girls in Salem did in 1692. When Vicki refused to admit guilt, Tamara led the gang in dragging Vicki to the gallows.

Kyle Richards of Beverly Hills told us that there was a clear case of projection when Camille Grammer accused Kyle of asking, “Why would anyone be interested in you, if Kelsey was not there?” Kyle tells Camille at the first night dinner in NYC, “I believe you heard that, but I didn’t say it.” Camille has been telling us from moment one that she is stepping out of Kelsey’s shadows and that being in his shadow was an issue for her. Kim, Kyle’s sister, said that Camille misinterpreted her sister’s questions and that Kyle never made that statement. I feel that Camille does not know that she has projected because she has buried those feeling in order to survive. She hates those emotions so when she heard Kyle’s questions about the Hawaii trip, she reacted. We know there was a verbal battle and there were tears from Kyle. We know they did not speak to each other on the return trip and the fight continued in NYC. We know the fight continues today with online comments from Kyle that “not everyone was meant to be friends.” The emotions are so deeply buried in Camille and she hates them so much that she has placed them on Kyle, punished Kyle and sent her to the dungeon.

Jill Zarin has sent Alex and Simon to the dungeon. She is cordial in the press at times, because she is being monitored and her PR agents do have input. Jill Zarin sent Bethenny to the dungeon too. Bethenny and Jill were fighting over Bethenny having the opportunity to star in her own show. That was hidden from us until the third season reunion. We were told that Bethenny did not care enough about Bobby (really Jill) to drop everything and run to his bedside when Jill didn’t tell her how sick he was. The flowers Bethenny sent were equal to the mailman’s flowers. Jill was questioned by the public through Andy Cohen at the reunion, but she can not understand that she was projecting her emotions onto Bethenny because she needs to survive. The jealousy and the anger that we witnessed in Jill’s behavior were subconscious on her part. She was consciously feeling what she told us she was feeling. She felt betrayed by a friend. She wanted us to agree with her and that is why she kept the phone message and played part of it for us and discussed it with Luann, her soothsayer, and anyone one else who would listen. That was season three. Jill trying to suppress feeling of failure that she hated and trying to have us take her side.

That leads us to consensus projection and all of the dangers that we face on our board, in real life and in the twitter universe. There is a video of Taylor and Kyle discussing marriage at bravotv.com. Lynn pointed it out in her blog as significant so I took that link. Taylor tells us that when she first met Russell, she thought they had so much in common. They both like trips to Mexico and vanilla ice cream Taylor weeps that she and Russell can not find a way to go back to the place that they accepted each other totally. That’s the Cloud 9 effect that we all have when we first fall in love with our mates or significant others. Of course, hormones are raging and the mind is affected. “The False Consensus Effect takes place when we overestimate the degree to which our own behavior attributes beliefs that are shared by others behaviors.” (Wikipedia.) When we meet new friends as Jill did with Alex and Simon, there is a period of shared consensus. Jill was generous to Alex. She helped her look at a preschool. Jill had Bobby pay for expensive dinners for the couple. In Jill’s mind, everyone was on the same wave length. Alex tells us of Jill’s constant negative comments about Alex’s family and we watch some of them on the screen. Alex finally begins to tell Jill that they are not in consensus so Jill removes Alex from her existence. You can not be Jill’s friend if you are not in consensus with Jill.

During the filming of season four, we see a tweet from Jill to Alex that was nice. We think Jill has turned over a new leaf, but Simon tweets that leopards do not change their spots. Years of analysis are required to recognize what goes on in our subconscious minds and even then many can not change how they think and interact with others. Leopards do not change their spots.

I mentioned on the board, that I was looking at the various ladies for signs of projection and that I thought that Nene of Atlanta was amazingly healthy. Several members agreed with me. Nene may be loud, but she sees who she is and how she interacts with others. She identifies the issues and tries to deal with them. That is why she can recover from disputes and say she is sorry. She’s amazing.

Lynn and I disagreed about Cat O of DC. In fact, I was in the minority on the board when we discussed the dispute with Erica at Stacy’s home when the kids were invited for an ice cream party. Erica and Cat were jabbing each other for a long time. Erica had feelings of jealousy because someone who was not from DC got that starring role on real housewives and Erica had wanted it. Cat thinks that being honest and sharing her thoughts was acceptable even if those thoughts offended others. Lynda and Mary publicly admonished Erica and gave excuses for the behavior of Cat. In my opinion, Stacy is the only housewife who saw things clearly. She explained to us that there were many comments that had gone on during the months of filming and during the run up to Cat’s run out. When Erica called Cat, “a mean girl,” it hit a nerve. I think that in Cat’s subconscious, she too thinks she is a mean girl. It’s my guess that deep down she thinks her behavior and comments were the root cause of her failing marriage with Charles and past failed relationships. The tears and the gut wrenching that Cat experienced as she walked out that door were a part of her battle to keep her own thoughts suppressed and project the mean girl reality onto her enemy, Erica. There is a reason that Charles walked out and never spoke to Cat again. My guess is: Cat was blaming him for her unhappiness and that is not a recipe for a successful marriage. What is blaming someone else for our own feelings of failure? It is Freud’s projection.

We all project in order to survive. The Human mind is so complicated. Being able to discuss these reality shows and share our personal experiences with so many is a gift from Lynn that I am so grateful for each and every day. When, on the board, we feel that we have consensus, and find that someone disagrees, it is a shock. The key is to read and understand the other person’s perspective. If someone misinterprets a comment, it’s not the end of the world or a black mark on our name. If someone we like doesn’t go to our defense, they are not disloyal. The golden rule of this board: do not attack other board members has saved this board many times and helped make the site popular.

When looking through past blogs, I noticed that the comments often go into the 600-800 range. Long after the blog changes, people are adding to the comments and discussing the blog. It’s amazing to read those comments. So to the regulars, the lurkers and those that comment for months later know that Lynn and others do read your thoughts and they are important contributions to the site.

Please take the time to look at the comments of the last two blogs as there have been fascinating contributions over the last few days. There is a sighting of Camille Grammer at a doughnut shop and someone will tell you how she behaved.

My dream of becoming Santa’s held elf for a brief time has come true. I will be with you over the next few days so any screw ups of this board are going to be on the “my bad list” on Santa’s desktop.

I hope everyone has a happy holiday season. Of course, I will be out there projecting just like everyone else. LOL. If only, I was as healthy as Nene.

Advertisements

About LynnNChicago

Reality TV Blogger
This entry was posted in Uncategorized and tagged , . Bookmark the permalink.

385 Responses to IHJZ Guest Blog – Real Housewives and Projection

  1. Melinda says:

    Just so happy to have found a great group of people who have similar interest in the RH franchise!! We may not always agree on the specifics but we can agree that some of those “ladies” make us crazy!! Thank you Lynn for creating a great forum!

    And fyi, I am a psychologist in training (will be done in March 2011) am doing my clinical internship right now…..this is very good at explaining why we have flocked to watch RH and why we embrace each other in a good ol’ fashioned blog-comment-a-thon!

    • quincyil says:

      I’m glad someone with your creditials is here with us. Your input will be helpful in understanding what we see. If you have time, please share what you thought of the fight in Malibu.

  2. quincyil says:

    Well, the title is not right and my correction didn’t go through. I will try to fix that without losing your posts. I am a virgin blog mistress.

    • quincyil says:

      Lynn is busy, but still on the planet so go ahead and comment. This is our honeymoon time. rotfl…

      • LynnNChicago says:

        Lynn, the guardian angel of the “I Hate Jill Zarin” blog, fixed my title error and actually published. rotfl… “relieve” and “pubicly” are words that will be typed one thousand times on my computer by the end of day. I fixed them, but didn’t know what to hit to republish.

        The winds on the plains are fiercely blowing, Kansas knows what I am talking about…lol… It’s going to be a rough few days, but we are going to survive.

        Hold on to your hats!

  3. tootsie says:

    Thank you so much Quincy, great blog. It explains much to me and I can better understand the workings of some people (including me). Job well done.

    • quincyil says:

      Tootsie, I am so glad you found this. I have to seriously work on my blog mistress skills. Lynn is still in town so even if a black hole swallows this blog and comments, I think she will be able to save us.

  4. TrueLifeDiva says:

    Good morning all!

  5. TrueLifeDiva says:

    @LynnNchicago, check your e-mail and DM’s. Things are not what you might think.

    • Rabble Rouser says:

      Is there something the rest of us should be concerned about? Is there something we can do to help?

  6. Had Enough! says:

    Took the words right out of mouth, Quincy!

    Please, Duchess – if you are out there, come back. I miss you! I was going to save this for your Christmas present, but I have the most amazing laundry story to tell you. It involves the time – the ONLY time – when not a single sock lost its mate.

    Please come back, Duchess, if only to let us know you are all right. I have a feeling I know why you’ve been absent, and if it is the reason I think, all I can say is:

    ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((hugE hugsS)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

    • Rabble Rouser says:

      I am also wondering where shar and Michelle from NY are. I was wondering what Michelle and her husband named their son and how the new baby is.

  7. TrueLifeDiva says:

    Ugh! Ordered something online and it arrived in four parts. Fifth piece still delayed but I need to ship to mom tomorrow or else. When fifth piece comes I’m just gonna reject it and get credit. I hate automated crap sometimes!

    • Kansas Girl says:

      Oh no! I’m also having problems. Something I ordered is back-ordered. Not a problem, but each time it gets to the date they expected to have more, they extend it another week. Very aggravating.

  8. jezzibel says:

    Aside from my theory of Camille hitting on Kyle’s husband I think she also intensly dislikes Kyle for the following reasons:
    1) Kyle was a success child actress…Camilles only acting roles involve porn and dancing on MTV
    2) Kyle comes from a well know family the Richards/Hiltons…..Camille nope
    3) Kyle again comes from a well to-do family…Camille gained her status and wealth flat on her back servicing a wealthy drunk old fool
    4)Kyle did’nt marry for wealth she did it for love….Camille just the opposite
    5) Kyle comes from a wealthy background and acts accordingly…Camille doesn’t and pretends at it.
    6) Kyle is popular..Camille has to pay for friendship
    Camille always claims to be friendly, shy, fun-loving and the victim of Kyle Richards when infact its the opposite..so yeah there is some major projection going on.

    • WindyCityWondering says:

      Exactly, of all the ladies – Kyle is the person that Camille wants to be! Kyle has what Camille wants – the attentive and attractive spouse and loving family, the easy way she fits in with others, the beauty that comes from within, etc…
      The only way for Camille to achieve these things is to destroy Kyle.

    • Mary T says:

      I disagree with you about Kyle…..Camille may be jealous of Kyle but there is something about Kyle that doesn’t ring true for me…..the fact that she is best friends with Faye Resnick speaks volumes about who she is….

      • quincyil says:

        I was wondering about Faye too.

      • Blue Sky says:

        At first I liked Kyle, she seemed to be fair & honest with the other women. Of course Camille is vile & evil, with her now two serious attempts to destroy Kyle, first in NYC and now at her Malibu dinner party. However, Kyle reacts too quickly with anger & then goes on the attack herself. I’ve heard reports of Paris Hilton getting into girl fights etc. so maybe this is a shared trait in their family?

        Kyle could react with dignity, get up from the table & leave. Imagine how the much more mature & savvy Lisa or Adrienne would handle themselves if Camille (or the fraudulent witch Allison) attacked them. Of course, Camille won’t attack Lisa or Adrienne, because she knows she will not get the same reaction.

        Is Camille a true sociopath, stirring up trouble so that she can gleefully watch the mayhem she causes? Yes, & the other women should now steer clear of her. Taylor & Kim still don’t quite get that Camille is totally manipulating them.

        Why doesn’t Camille have any female friends? Because she does not need female friends, & could never have real friendship due to her sociopathic nature. How many male friends does she have? I would venture none. She manipulates men too. How did Kelsey ever stay with this woman as long as he did? I believe he was ill with his addictions, and that his personality isn’t much better than Camille’s sociopathic one.

        It gags me that Camille thinks “all women are just jealous of me.” No Camille, they are not jealous of you. They are scared of your incredibly evil persona!

        I am sure that Kelsey Grammer is enjoying watching this little ho’wives of BH show way more than we are.

  9. TrueLifeDiva says:

    @WSL, thanks for the recipe. But I have to ask you, does it REALLY include mace? I’m gonna leave that out until you confirm…;-)

  10. knocknoc says:

    To our special Quincy Elf:

    I love you and your words, expressions and sentiments.
    You are a very creative writer and it a joy to read you
    words. Keep up the good work and always look forward
    to reading your thoughts on our favorite ladies.

    Happy Holidays to you and your loved ones, including
    those horses in the barn.

    • quincyil says:

      Thank you… I am making apple pie… so the horses are having apple peelings, cut up apples, and apple cores. I picked apples that were not quite right all fall and put them away for the horses in winter. On holidays, all of the animals share the feast. Cats love turkey… and gibblets…

    • WindyCityWondering says:

      I agree 100% – Quincy you make us think, reflect and then construct our posts – which make this blog that much more an interesting community!

  11. Wall St Lady says:

    round Mace Spice

    Mace spice sold in all quantities. Mace is a fine membrane that surrounds nutmeg and has a similar, although somewhat milder flavor.
    http://www.bulkpeppercorns.com/mace_spice

    Wow 1 letter makes a big diff.
    Remember I was the last kid standing in a spelling bee & then they would fight over
    Who HAD to take Lee.

    • Blue Sky says:

      That was me when we had to choose teams for any sport. Still remember the humiliation in long ago grade school gym class. Why does the brain store all the unhappy memories, whereas the really good ones…I have to make an effort to remember them. Pictures do help, so take photos people of the happy times! I treasure mine. And whenever an unhappy memory comes floating into my cerebral recesses, I try to whisk it away, substituting a much happier one. And forgiving the person that gave me that unhappy memory, although it is hard sometimes.

  12. Rabble Rouser says:

    Thank you for the blog Q!

    I like reading your take on things and profiling many of the houseswifes. I’m not sure if I agree about NeNe being ‘healthy’ but that’s okay, I know I am in the minority with that.

    I hope everything is okay with Lynn and that she is busy in a good way- the hectic before the holidays pace that some many of us feel.

    DH and still have to decide what we are getting the kids and everyone else- so we are VERY behind in our shopping. I asked DH to take Dec 23 of off work to help me- and he did…but then he schedule some major dental work. Grrrrr.

    • quincyil says:

      She’s great, just busy. She will be back in a while. There are so many people here more capable than I am when it comes to computers, but Mon. and Tues. are guest blog days so Lynn is letting me try to change over my blogs. I think I understand it now. Behind the doors is a room that has more complicated software and computers than they used to send men to the moon. There were a few sirens and flashing red lights this morning, but Lynn came back to check and changed the title for us.

      Even if there is a problem whiles she’s gone, she can fix it when she comes back. Don’t worry. I may be a scientist, but no one will be disassembled. There might be suspended animation, but Lynn will make all decisions when she returns.

      If only Kat were here in the basement with me. We could be in our pajamas and eat cheetoes together in the next few days.

  13. Wall St Lady says:

    I want an answer !
    Where did Grannylovesme’s
    Posts from last night, go ?
    You can see I answered ?s she asked me.

    I am making Quincy’s quiche for guests. It’s perfect for a group brunch particularly when I am solo chef,cook & bottle washer.
    Oh WSM will make the coffee but can’t find the milk in the refrigerator !

  14. TrueLifeDiva says:

    @WSL, I make the best sweet potato pies-homemade chili-chicken n dumplings-cornbread-KeyLime pies- ever! And now I will make it my goal to make the best pound cake ever. Few people cook from scratch anymore. I have friends whose recipes consist of opening cans, mixing, top with cheese, and then heat. It’s absolutely ridiculous 🙂

    • JazzNightOut says:

      Did you say Key Lime Pie?!!!!

    • Blue Sky says:

      TLD, have pity on us, share those recipes!!! Please I love chili, & all pies. I make a sweet potato pie, but it’s really made from yams. I just follow the pumpkin pie recipe, but I cook the yam (peeled, cut in pieces) then mash it. It makes a delicious pie. Another secret, I have a coffee grinder (small electric one) that I use only for spices. So I use cinnamon sticks, whole cloves, cardamom etc. & grind them fresh. So much better than the old ground spices you buy at the grocery store. Best place to buy whole spices (cinnamon sticks etc. ) is at your local Indian grocery store. They have the best tea too. Much cheaper than any other store. Great fresh veg. & fruit too.

      Here’s how you can make chicken curry better than the restaurant: buy the spice packet for chicken at the Indian grocer ( I use a variety, look them over & try a couple). Mix the spice packet & yogurt together (use more yogurt if you don’t want it too spicy). Cut up chicken in small pieces, I use breast cutlets without the skin. Marinate for 6 hours or overnight. Bake in the oven until done, you can use 300 or 350…& bake your pies, cookies, etc. at the same time.

  15. TrueLifeDiva says:

    @WSL, maybe she will come back again and you can ask her then. You sound a bit obsessed. You never ask about me like that…

  16. TrueLifeDiva says:

    @QuincyIl, Kat is like BeetlJuice. Say her name three times and she appears 😀

  17. Wall St Lady says:

    TLD I would have u in my will for my shoes but u have
    Princess & the pea
    sized tootsies.
    So I have left them to our Boston girls.
    Yes I have some hot pink bottom
    Ones.

    • quincyil says:

      Kat is in my will and I am leaving her the Lexus, six horses, and Buddy my favorite cat.

      • Kat says:

        Where are you hiding my caffeine?
        I’d adopt Buddy in a heartbeat.
        You better not leave me Q. I’d have to hire Allison so we could talk.

        • quincyil says:

          LOL… When my father was dying, I spent months with him helping him. Lots of that time was in my barn. He would ride my lawnmower as I moved from stall to stall because he was so sick and wanted to be with me. On the day he died and for several weeks after ward, I had to sense that he was with me in the barn when I was alone doing that work. I was calm on the outside taking care of my mother, siblings, children and husband, but my subconsious must have been a total wreck. The feeling of his being there was something that my subconscious did to help me survive that turmoil. I figured it out over time, but I really thought he was with me for awhile. I didn’t tell anyone that until now…

          • Kat says:

            I’ve had a couple of experiences after the passing of loved ones that have convinced me that communication happens.
            Tapping sounds. Blinds flipping up. Brown water in my shower that had never run brown before or since. I even called the utility to see if work was being done near my home.

      • knocknoc says:

        Q

        You are leaving her too many things
        can I at least have Buddy?

        • quincyil says:

          You can have Buddy’s twin sister, Sister Kitty. You can also have my amethest collection. I took my kids to rock shops all over the country to teach them geology of the various regions as we had family vacations. My older kids would pick out fossils and rocks from that area. My youngest always picked out the biggest amethyst rock that he could find because that is my birthstone. Then, on my birthday that rock was wrapped in a shoe box and given to me. I have a huge collection and will leave you the most beautiful purple stones.

          • knocknoc says:

            Will it fit in my purse or will I need a
            leather satchel? Maybe I bring both
            since Sister Kitty will need a warm
            cozy spot to keep her happy.

            • quincyil says:

              Bring both…. Sister Kitty was born to a feral mom, but Buddy wanted a home and she followed. Mom let’s me pet her now, but Sister Kitty and Buddy are very loving cats.

    • OneMoreInBoston says:

      WSL-you had me at hot pink

  18. kbinldo says:

    Awesome read as always, quincy! 🙂 I do disagree with you on Camille & Jill, though. I think they both knew exactly what they were doing at all times regarding Kyle & Bethenny. 🙂

    • quincyil says:

      It’s very possible. They intentially inflicted pain on Kyle and Bethenny. The projection comes before the punishment, in my opinion. It came when Jill was angry at Bethenny for failing to help Jill when she was rising and when Camille originally misheard Kyle’s question about Kelsey and Hawaii. The punishment phase followed with Bethenny’s estrangement and Kyle’s entrapment. I think events took place. Jill and Camille had visceral reactions to the events. To help themselves deal with these thoughts and survive, they projected the thoughts onto Bethenny and Kyle. Now, Bethenny and Kyle are vile and monstrous people, not Jill and Camille. Try dealing with someone who feels you are vile and monstrous. That’s why we see both Bethenny and Kyle in tears.

  19. WindyCityWondering says:

    Quincy, I agree that projection is something we all do. When thinking about the housewives, we post on the negative aspects of their behavior. So does that make us a negative community?

    • BaaBee Loves Kitties says:

      For me it is so hard to believe what people do to each other that we need to find out why someone would act a certain way WCW. I don’t think we a negative community at all~just the opposite here anyway. 😉

    • quincyil says:

      I am sure some would say so. There is balance here in that most of us give credit to the ladies when they do spectacular things like the NJ girls and that Fashion Show. We also recognize that we are Human. Bravo must have had this in mind when they created the shows. They are making money off of our viewing.

      • Blue Sky says:

        Quincy, thank you for doing the guest blogs, & guiding us along in this analysis of the psyche of each Bravo housewife.

        mind: that which is responsible for one’s thoughts and feelings; the seat of the faculty of reason; “his mind wandered”; “I couldn’t get his words out of my head”
        soul: the immaterial part of a person; the actuating cause of an individual life
        (Greek mythology) a beautiful princess loved by Cupid who visited her at night and told her she must not try to see him; became the personification of the soul

        I think this is a very positive place, where we try to make sense of it all. Sometimes we fail at that re: Kelly! Other times we do make progress, as in identifying the pure evil that we see in Camille & Allison. They are who we never (I hope!) want to be, but we are fascinated by their behavior. I really enjoy the conversations on this board.

  20. BaaBee Loves Kitties says:

    Good Day All~
    What a beautiful blog Quincy & Lynn of course~you make me laugh & think at the same time~
    Finally watched all the shows & I feel exactly the way all of you do. This blog is so helpful to us for understanding our own lives as well as what could these people be thinking or can they think at all? Thank you for the time & respect that is shown here..
    You should be so proud All Of Us’s 😉
    Peace & Tranquility To All

  21. TrueLifeDiva says:

    @WSL darn these 7 1/2’s! I’ll take any hats though, love me some hats. And I’m from the south so you know I’ll represent well.

  22. BaaBee Loves Kitties says:

    I have a pink quilt..thank you~very pretty

  23. boston02127 says:

    Quincy, thank you for this blog. It was a great read.

  24. quincyil says:

    This blog was written a while ago, but I thought it was interesting that someone like Camille who projects her emotions on to others would choose Allison the Medium for this Party. Allison supposedly takes thoughts from the minds of others and from the dead.

    If Allison truly had gifts, you would think that she would have received strong vibes from the person to her left, but she did not. You would think a medium would be able to connect with the minds that they have bonds with over the mind of a person they don’t know sitting far away. Assuming these vibes are in our universe and reality.

    • BaaBee Loves Kitties says:

      I have never believed in anything like that~I have never seen someone predict the future or anything else except in common sense.

      • quincyil says:

        People can predict some things because of the laws of probablility. Professional gamblers and card counters make educated guesses. I bet you can make excellent guesses, BaaBee.

    • LynnnSoCal says:

      Thanks for the insightful post. I thought maybe we had a Troll/ bipolar proffessional blogger attack. I love the friendly diversity of this group. I will speak for myself. I try to be objective, but I know my opinions are at times based on my history. Projection. The awfulness of Camille and the soothsayer slag was full of projectile projection. Camille achieved more vileness by waiting until months later to apologize publicly. Reeked of insincerity. An honest heartfelt expression should have been done with humility a long time ago.

      • JazzNightOut says:

        Love the phrase “projectile projection.”

      • quincyil says:

        I don’t know if I am always fair. I try to detach and remove myself from emotions. I see the Real Housewive as us. They are the people on twitter and in our real lifes.

        I don’t believe that everyone at the Battle of Malibu is an alpha female by definition. I don’t believe De De is alpha. I’d say she is omega. Faye and Allison are betas, they want to be on top and are clawing their way up, but they are still in battle. Kim R is omega even though she was a Disney star. Adrienne, Lisa, and Kyle are alphas. I think Camille has huge issues of self worth and therefore she is not an alpha female. I think Taylor is probably a beta too.

        Alphas know who there are and know they are on top. Kyle is a weak alpha, but still alpha.

        There are so many alphas on this board and you can see interactions sometimes warm to the occasion, but reason usually wins.

        • WindyCityWondering says:

          It was interesting watching the Maloof – she raised a toast to alpha females not just because she is one but because it was the first time Allison said something she could respond to that made sense!

          • quincyil says:

            Alpha females are established. They really aren’t in battle attire. That’s why Kyle is a very weak alpha. She has the potential to rise to the status of Adriene and Lisa in time.

            I’ve seen betas battle for the position of alpha in the barn. It’s not pretty. The true alphas are strong. They actually decide when the other horses will eat and drink. They move the herd and defend when danger comes.

            I’ve seen alpha females step forward with gelding to defend the herd from a Brahman Bull attack. As the gelding snorted and moved forward, the lead mare clear the path and took the other mares and foals to the paddock area. The geldings followed and the lead mare and geldig stood at the gate until I could get it closed. I was scared to death btw… That bull was 3,000 lbs and insane.

        • AZ Girl says:

          I personally believe I am an Alpha and find situations like the Battle of Malibu a waste of time. I would have been “up and out” and FU. I know women like Camille and they try to get to me but I find them vapid and I just don’t have the patience to deal with their crap. Kyle reaction to Camille baffles me.

          • quincyil says:

            I would have left long before Taylor called, “Enough, enough.”

            Surprisingly, in the NYC Housewives, I think the Countess, Alex, and Sonja are alphas. Jill, Bethenny, and Ramona are battling betas. In NJ, Caroline is an alpha. In Atlanta, Kandi and Cynthia, and Ne Ne are alphas. OC doesn’t have one. In DC, Stacy is the strongest alpha, with Lynda and Mary weaker alphas.

            I know Lynn is an alpha. You don’t do all of this without knowing who you are and where you are going. A lot of the women with blogs are alphas.

            I like people who are omegas and alphas, and tend to know betas from a distance.

  25. TEB says:

    Exceptional blog! I have no problem when someone has a different perspective than me and sometimes thier insight can change my perspective. It’s all about respect. Thank you Lynn and Quincy for dedicating a blog to try and remind people to have respect for another person’s thoughts.

    • quincyil says:

      I actually appreciate other opinions and fairly often change my mind with new information. It’s impossible to know the thoughts of others as the soothsayer, Allison informed us at the Battle of Malibu. I could be wrong about a lot of things, but I am open to information and willing to rethink so I have a slightly better chance of getting it right.

  26. Scorpiosue1102 says:

    Great blog Quincy. I really LOVE reading your blogs. Completely makes sense regarding these ladies.

  27. tweatcyn says:

    Brilliant analysis on projection Q. I can’t tell you how much I enjoy the intelligence and wit I find with you all. I wish you all were living close by so I wouldn’t feel like a misunderstood fish out of water with the dull-witted, average intelligence people I work with who don’t get my humor and don’t understand my vocabulary. It’s like I’ve met the people from my home planet when I come here (and on twitter).So refreshing.

  28. Scorpiosue1102 says:

    It seems as if Camille has a plan for every situation so that got me to thinking….could be dangerous;). I think the whole cozying up to Nick, calling him hot, him being in Vegas, etc. are completely orchestrated by Camille for Kelsey’s benefit. I am sure she had an inkling that not all was right in her marriage so why not get Kelsey jealous by seeing how touchy feely she and Nick were/are. The problem was that Kelsey already had his chippy on the side.

    Also, I have never seen someone who cannot look at the camera as much as Camille. It’s such a poker tell that she’s either lying or embellishing.

  29. JazzNightOut says:

    Thanks, Quincy, for your blogs, especially this one. I know I project especially when I am feeling insecure about something. So sure everyone is seeing what I am feeling that it shocks me when others don’t.

    I do think Camille projects a lot, but I also think some of her ‘delusions’ are intentional. Just as I think some of Kelly’s projections are intentional. I know she is dumb, but meaness takes some intentional thought, and both Kelly and Camille can both be very mean.

    As for JZ, I think most of her actions are based on control; she needs to be in the ‘cat bird seat.’ If someone gets out of her control, all hell breaks loose, and she begins destroying her escapee. I think most of the people she goes after were once either controlled friends or those she sees as beneath her. Kelly should look out!

    • quincyil says:

      Everyone has to survive and this is JZ’s method of survival. I give her a lot of credit for striving for success despite the roadblocks that she had created for herself.

      • JazzNightOut says:

        Nods, all the way from kindergarten on! In a way, she is quite heroic. Never gives up, but spews such dreck it is hard to empathize with her.

        • quincyil says:

          Absolutely, Jill is a flawed heroine. I know some won’t like that word, but I mean it in the sense of the Greek Tragedies.

    • floridagirl88 says:

      Kelly’s too dumb to understand it.

  30. AZ Girl says:

    Great job QuincyIl. Wonderful topic. I agree with you and Lynn about NeNe. This season I promised myself NOT to watch the Atlanta franchise but with Lynn’s re-caps I was really curious. NeNe really does have a healthy perspective when dealing with her personal problems. She does places blame but instead deals with the problem “head on”.

    In NeNe interviews we see how perceptive she is too all issues. For example, when Sheree invited her ex-husband to her daughter’s birthday party we see NeNe in the interview explain how difficult divorce is on the children and how Sheree and her ex are trying to do their best to be a team for the kids.

    As for Camille she is a piece of work. Camille is constantly referring that everyone is “jealous” of her and her wonderful marriage and her lifestyle. That “jealously” is why they don’t like her.
    We all know that deep down inside Camille knows her marriage is done, she is lonely and she is the one who would love to have the companionship that the other housewives share. Having paid employees as your friend is not companionship it is contract.

    • AZ Girl says:

      Oops Nene “doesn’t place blame”.

    • floridagirl88 says:

      And maybe most embarrassing of all for Camille is knowing he left, knowing there was a pre-nup, and he didn’t care, just wanted out so bad he will pay her whatever to be rid of her.

  31. aquamarinecandy-083 says:

    Interesting blog entry to read, thanks Quincy.

  32. California35 says:

    Thank you Quincy,

    I like to read your posts, and like the way you express in writing. I wish I had that talent. You did make me remember those HW situations, and reflect on them.

    What is that you are saying about Lynn? She isn’t on the board sertain days of the week, or just this week?

  33. Dani says:

    Thank you Qunicyil your blog was great. I enjoyed reading the insight into all of the ladies that we like and dislike on HW’s. I love coming here and reading the comments by all of you. Once in awhile I feel the need to comment myself, but, most of the time I just enjoy reading all of your opinions. There are many times that I don’t need to make a comment because someone has already written what I was thinking. This is the only show that I watch on a regular basis and I love this blog. I also want to thank Lynn for bringing us all together, I feel that you are all my friends and neighbors. I can picture all of us having coffee in the morning and discussing the HW’s lol.
    When my daughter was getting ready to tell my grand-daughter that she was adopted, this is where I came for advise. Kat and all of you were so helpful. This has become much more of a blog for me than just discussing the HW’s.

    • quincyil says:

      Dani, I remember some of your posts and I’m glad you are here with us.

      I think all of the housewives of Bravo went into this process for income and fame. I think many now have infamy and their soothsayers failed to tell them this would happen.

      • Dani says:

        I agree I am sure they did not realize that from their actions the viewers would have such insight into their personal lives. Thank you Quincyil for your reply, and making me feel so welcome.

        • Kat says:

          Hi Dani, good to see you. 😉

          • Dani says:

            Hi Kat, I want to thank you again for all of the great advice that you gave to me in regards to my grand daughter’s adoption. You will never know how much you helped my daughter in her discussion with our beautiful little girl. Thank you again.

  34. TrueLifeDiva says:

    @JazzNightOut, yeah I said KEYLIME PIE! 😉

  35. error 404 says:

    RHoBH blog recaps:

    Adrienne: I’m starting to get lost amongst all the tacky drama queens. All you guys want to hear is my opinion of Camille vs. Kyle, so I’ll spend the next two pages boring you with details of my dull scenes with Paul. This will help me feel relevant. finally, I talk about “the dinner party”, but I’d do it in a vague and non committal way. Long story short, Camille needs to put down ‘the Art of War’ and pick up “Emily Post’s Guide to Modern Etiquette”.

    Lisa: Well, you all know the drill by now:
    – I love my husband and we are happy
    – Kyle is one of my best friends
    – Kim is a weirdo
    – I can’t wait for Camille to lose all of her money so I can really say how I feel about her.

    Taylor: Did you all see me stand up and say “enough. Enough!” and then we all left. See how important I am.

    Camille: I am shocked, shocked I tell you t6 my very core that all of my hard work and good will went wrong. These women are evil. I sincerely wanted to make amends with the other wives at a dinner party just for them so I invited a friend none of them know. I love my friend who gets drunk and belligerent, she’s a doll. With the best of intentions, I served really strong drinks and then introduced them all to my friend making sure they all knew she was a famous psychic. Then, suddenly without warning, Faye Resnic changed the whole mood into something dark and evil merely by showing up. It’s not that she did or said anything, but vague and unspecific ways that only sensitive people like I pick up on were at play and Faye singlehandedly ruined the evening. Bitch. It was obvious to me that she was out to destroy my party, pretending she was doing nothing unusual, so I had to defend my self by asking her without any lead up about her nude photos. She how she mind locked me with her secret powers to say that? Evil. I was desperately trying to get control back of my party with the best intentions of making the girls feel welcome. Allison was her usual charming, funny and loving self, but that Faye bitch just kept attacking everyone. I think she felt the need to defend her friend Kyle, which is just wrong and immoral. Finally after so many attacks upon my person, Allison decided she had to defend her friend, me. This was right and just and virtuous. Allison is an angel here among mortals. Finally they left but Faye evil spell was still upon me, forcing me to say the most horrible and untrue things about Kyle behind her back. I am truly sorry that I allowed Faye to make me says those things. I am truly sorry that I said that Kyle’s husband slept with 5 nannies on a tuesday in december. There is false information within that statement.

    Kyle: Living well is the best revenge. Take that Camille.
    I’m not bothered by the things the psycho psychic said because they were so way off, all they did was prove that she doesn’t have “the gift”. I knew all along that the party was a trap, but I was still surprised that Camille felt the need to attack my friend Faye. She may seem like she readily joined in and could handle her own, but I am still mortified that I subjected her to the degregations I willingly put myself under.

  36. TrueLifeDiva says:

    @Had Enough, I love all things KeyLime but a true KeyLime pie will make your heart race!

    • Had Enough! says:

      If you ever have the chance to visit the Florida Everglades, be sure to stop at the Robert is Here fruitstand in Florida City. Order the key lime milkshake. It is unbelievable! I was there 20 years ago and everyone who was there with me – we all still talk about it. We even thought about ordering seconds to go, they were that good.

  37. PJ says:

    Very interesting blog. Sorry I have to disagree about Nene though.
    I don’t always see things the way other people see them. I realize that people have flaws and those flaws will show up if the spotlight is put on them. But being flawed does not necessarily make a person evil. If Camille married well then good for her, I have no problem with that. I don’t see it as the negative that some people think it is. The majority of people would do the same given the chance. I think you should always try to understand a situation from the point of view of the person in the situation not from your own perspective. I would be interested to know where people get some of their information from. For instance how do people know that Kyle came from a family with money and Camille didn’t? Could someone please tell me what on earth difference it makes? Also how do people know what Camille’s motives in marring Kelsey Grammer were? Isn’t there even a possibility that she loved him? I think Camille put up with a lot from him, I wouldn’t trade places with her for all the money she has. It’s difficult to really judge a person based on seeing only surface things about them, you have to try to look deeper. When I look at these women I see that they are all flawed individuals, although some have better personalities and so are more likeable. I don’t see that any one of them has more right to throw stones than the next one. Some people don’t have good skills when it comes to solving problems with others. It takes a certain personality to do a reality TV show, and then to go in front of cameras and make a complete fool of yourself. I’d say there was some delusion in all of them. Every one of these women has some sort of agenda in being on these shows in the first place. What you have to remember about all of the BH ladies is that they are all self obsessed and over indulged and they don’t really live in the real world that most of us live in, so it has to influence their perspective. Look at that party Taylor gave for her daughter, that wasn’t for her daughter. If Taylor was thinking about her daughter she would have had a party that the children could enjoy. People find Adrienne and her husband funny to watch but I’m not so sure about their relationship. Kyle–I’m not so sure Camille was just projecting. Something about Kyle does not ring true to me. In communication there are the things people actually say and the things people project or imply by the things they say or the way they say them. In the case between Camille and Kyle the projecting could have been coming from Kyle. Kyle may have been implying exactly what Camille thought Kyle said. Kim did deny that Kyle said these things but only in front of the other ladies Kim has been reluctant to take up Kyle’s case in front of Camille. There has to be a reason for that. I don’t buy the reason Kim gave. People use this kind of communication and then can claim innocence when the other person is upset; because what the other person is feeling was implied not actually spoken but the meaning was clear. There is way more to people and their communication with one another than projection.

    • Had Enough! says:

      I agree with your premise that there is more than we see, and I would say that most people do have a good side. In my entire life, I’ve met only two people I could honestly say had no good side, and that was after trying for years to see something good about them. Actually, one of them I could say did good work, even though he was a horrible person. The other- no. Nothing. Just pure evil.

      As for where people find info — the internet is an amazing place. It is not hard to find info about Kim & Kyle’s parents (mother and stepfathers) or Camille’s background. Not to say we aren’t conjecturing about some things, like whether Camille married Kelsey for love or money or a bit of both.

      • WindyCityWondering says:

        We react to what we are presented with (via Bravo editing) and realize there is alot more to all these housewives. We supplement what we see with what we find on the internet. We introduce our own experiences with similar individuals’ personalitites and situations. This community approach to processing and understanding is what makes this blog both entertaining and enlightening.

    • Rabble Rouser says:

      It doesn’t bother me that Camille married well, I think the sadder socially commentary about that is that is seems like girls are trained to marry well to escape poverty or mediocrity while boys are trained to go out and make it.

      While I couldn’t say if Camille actually loved Kelsey, I am pretty confident in thinking if it had not been for the fame and fortune she wouldn’t have given him the time of day. Somehow, I doubt that troubled, addicted, balding and out of work actors are in a great demand. It also seems like the lack of fulfillment she feels in their relationship she tried to fill the void with “stuff”. Unhappy home? Maybe 7 houses will help you forget that. Insecure about your looks? Get work done, have a stylist of every variety on staff. Feel like you are inn your husbands shadow? Use his fame and wealth to secure a position on a reality show to convince yourself you are your own woman. No one believes you? Hire people that do.

      If Camille has any redeeming value, it hasn’t been revealed to us.

      • PJ says:

        I agree. I don’t think Kelsey Grammer would have had a whisper of a chance with Camille if he wasn’t who he is. Although he was starring on Fraiser, not out of work, when they met and married. They were married for seven of the years that he was on that show. That’s why she stands to get so much money in the divorce settlement. In my opinion she earned it. It doesn’t appear that the marriage was all that fulfilling, if you can believe what you read.

        • LynnnSoCal says:

          Kelsey Grammar is an incredibly wealthy, balding, not very attractive, addictive man. The money is the honey that attracts. He can have anyone he wants. I see similar situations fairly regularly in this area. Love doesn’t have a whole lot to do with it. The stories I wish I had time to share.

    • Adgirl says:

      I disagree about Nene too – mostly I like her but she was a jerk about Tardy for the Party to Kim and Kandi. She didn’t want to be eclipsed and tried to either get onto the song or kill the whole project.
      She seems better this season. I hope she does well without having to take something from others.

    • error 404 says:

      Sorry but I’m lost.

      Who cares about people’s pasts and the reason for marriage, etc… we watch a show, and on that show, Camille acts like a total bitch from hell.

      I’ve said this before, but here it goes again. Let’s suppose for jsut a moment that Kyle did say what Camille accuses her of saying. So what? BFD! Not everyone on the plaent is required to love Camille Grammer unconditionally. So Kyle’s a bitch. So what? Camille, had she been a normal person, or at least anywhere near the self assured peaceful kind person she keeps describing herself as to the camera, would have shrugged her shoulders and gotten over it. She’d have kept Kyle at a polite distance and move don with her faboulsly fulfilling life.

      But instead, Camille keeps repeating this one sentence said during a heated exchange, over and over and over again to anyone who will listen. She practically won’t talk about anything else. It wasn’t even said on camera, but Camille has gone out of her way to make sure it becomes a huge part of the show. So far, several episodes have been dedicated to it. Camille keeps going out of her way to interact with Kyle and to keep confronting her with this one stupid sentence said weeks ago. Over and over and over again. It’s obsessive. It’s egotistic. It’s weird. Dare I say it…it’s creepy!

      Kyle goes on with life, going on trips, talking about her family etc…. but in every scene with Camille, she keeps mentioning Kyle and that one thing she once said. Is it really a physical impossibility for Camille to get on with life if Kyle never admits to saying it? It’s creepy.

      • skogsstig says:

        Bravo, error! ♥ this response.

      • PJ says:

        I know that everyone here is supposed to dislike Camille. But I have to disagree with you. People get their feelings hurt and who are we to tell them how they should feel and how they should handle those feelings? Who are we to judge someone over that? Not everyone can shrug off something as hurtful as what Camille claims Kyle said. Consider what was going on in the background in Camille’s life, her marriage was breaking up. I imagine that all of Camille’s biggest fears were encompassed in what she claims Kyle said. If you haven’t been through the breakup of a marriage under these circumstances, well I have and it’s really hell. Give Camille a break for goodness sake. You can dislike her all you want, and I agree she is coming off as difficult to warm up to, but try to have some understanding of why she might be coming off the way she is.
        Also FYI my comment on her loving her husband was in response to people judging her on that. My point was that only the parties involved know the answer to that and it is really unfair to judge based on something you can’t possibly have any knowledge of.
        People can be so quick to judge and so slow to show compassion.

        • American Idiot says:

          PJ, you are correct when you say that sometimes people get their feelings hurt and who are we to tell them how to feel. But, imo, if Camille had her feelings hurt the best thing to do would have been to let some time pass, and then discuss the situation with Kyle, one on one. Instead, she proceeded to everyone about the altercation, Lisa while shopping, Nick and others at her BBQ, etc. Now, I realize sometimes when you are upset, you want to discuss the problem with a friend or relative, that is only normal. What Camille lacks however, is someone who will listen to her and give her perspective, their own opinion, maybe clue her into another way of looking at things. Instead, all she has around her are “yes” men and women (DeDe), none of whom dare to tell her, maybe you misunderstood. Only Lisa and Nick tried, but Camille was having none of their opinions.

          • LynnnSoCal says:

            You make valid objective points. Ironic that Quince is pointing out in detail what projection means. A perfect example in PJ’s comments. IMO! A response based on personal history. While I disagree with PJ, I understand the reaction. After way too much time researching Camille history, I don’t think very highly of her. Kelsey either for that matter. So sad for future mental health of those children.

            • PJ says:

              Projecting and understanding are two different things. I understand why Camille might have been upset, that’s it. I see the view point of others; I’m not stuck in my own view point. It doesn’t mean I agree, it just means that I understand. I can see both the good and bad. But I think people have the potential to change and should be given a chance. I think if you aren’t a violent criminal or a serial killer you are capable of change and entitled to be allowed to change, because there is no one who is perfect and doesn’t make mistakes.
              Maybe you are projecting. But of course if I am making a point you don’t agree with you have to have something to say.

              • LynnnSoCal says:

                I think it’s all about Camille. Her concern is face time not feelings. She will do whatever is necessary to be on screen. Her motivation supposedly is to get out from behind Kelsey’s shadow. She is under the delusion that she’s quite an actress. This is a reality show and we all know it’s fake, right?

                • Kat says:

                  “This is a reality show and we all know it’s fake, right?”
                  Exactly.

                • PJ says:

                  If it’s fake why dislike Camille so much? Are these ladies really being themselves or are they playing a part? You can’t have it both ways. Either these ladies are being themselves and they are really the way they are portrayed on TV or they are playing a part. If they are just playing a part then why dislike some of them so much. Because if Camille is playing a part then she is a brilliant actress because she has everyone here convinced.

                  • LynnnSoCal says:

                    Honey, by the title alone IHJZ we know this is a tongue in cheek, snark fest. You can’t take this personally. These people signed up for this. Acting or not based on all info out there in cyberspace I don’t think Camille is a very likable person or character. She’s also a horrible actress. My opinion, which I’m allowed to have and express here. You don’t have to agree. It’s a show, not a life changing enterprise. It’s all in fun!

                    • PJ says:

                      Ok honey I’m entitled to my opinion too. I was trying to point out how illogical it is to say on the one hand that it’s all fake and then say but I can’t stand this person or that person. If it’s all fake they are acting and playing a character and you don’t really see who the real person is. I don’t think you can come to know what someone is really like by looking them up on line. My point is I don’t think it’s all fake. I think, unfortunately, that these people are pretty much who they appear to be on screen.

        • Rabble Rouser says:

          I agree with both of you in a sense.

          If Kyle did make that comment, most people I know could shake it off pretty easy. But to say that to someone like Camille who obviously feels so much of her identity is centered around being Mrs. Kelsey Grammar and knowing that her husband was planning on spending an entire year away from her- her marriage was on shaky ground, it would feel like a death blow.

          Just because Camille doesn’t care about other people’s feelings does mean she doesn’t have any of her own. I actually think that is part of her narcissism.

          But I don’t think I will be giving Camille a break. She might be vulnerable but that doesn’t give her permission to treat other people like crap. I really don’t think she is a good person; I think that is why she is attracted to people like Allison because it makes her look like a humanitarian by comparison.

          • PJ says:

            I agree she should be more mature but as some have pointed out she doesn’t have anyone around her who can tell her the truth who she will listen to. She doesn’t seem to have relationships with equals, just people who work for her and are therefore dependant on her. If she goes off the rails in her thinking who is there to bring her back to reality. That’s a problem and sad.
            You’re right Camille’s situation does not give her the right to treat others badly there is no good excuse for that.
            I really don’t want to defend Camille. I don’t like her any more than you do. But I think I do understand where she’s coming from.

        • kbinldo says:

          If I hadn’t watched Camille blame her mom for giving her the cancer gene with my own eyes & turning the conversation from “Gosh, Mom, how are you doing? What does the doctor say?” to “Poor me! I’ve had to fly to Hawaii for vacation, then back to LA then to NYC for hubby’s Broadway premiere” I might buy that explanation.

        • BessiB says:

          We are not judging her feelings, but what she does about them.

      • American Idiot says:

        I like your way of looking at this error. You make some very good points.

      • OneMoreInBoston says:

        very good points@ error-I agree with you.

      • TLM says:

        She keeps repeating it because it’s all she has to hold onto. At the time this was filmed, her marriage was imploding, while Kyle’s was thriving. It was easier to try to turn Kyle into a villain and get whatever sympathy she could from anyone who would listen. And look at Kyle and then look at Camille. Dare *I* say it? Camille was jealous of Kyle, and has proven herself to be the kind of person who is malicious to women she is jealous of. She has admitted she isn’t a girl’s girl. Camille’s only social currency was her famous husband and her sex appeal, and she knew both were rapidly slipping away. She couldn’t stop the clock and she couldn’t force Kelsey to stay married to her, but she could attack Kyle. Brilliant! And then she pretended to make up, only to attack Kyle two more times. Her final attack, I guess, was to attempt to punish Kyle financially while she still had a say-so over Kelsey’s money. It’s really sad when the only thing you hold over other people is having money to spend or taking it away. I don’t doubt that it’s a powerful feeling, but when that’s all you have? Pretty sad.

        • kotagirl29 says:

          It is extremely sad. I think that most of us would agree on that point. Camille has no sense of her own worth. She has a fragile ego and when her looks were not enough to carry her in her chosen profession, she married someone who was both successful and also psychologically fragile. Whether it was for love or money, the Grammar marriage was going to go down because neither one of them were/are mentally healthy.

          Kelsey tried to fix his problems with drugs, Camille tried with buying everything from friends to underwear. They are both a bit pompous and really weak. Like attracts like, but they couldn’t help each other or fix each other and now we get to pick it all apart.

  38. Obsessed with RH says:

    Great Blog Quincy!!! I have to say it was fantastic reading not just because I love reading about the housewives but also because the commentary on projection reminded me 100% of my psychotic mother in law who uses emotional blackmail to control her three sons. She projects her own dissatisfaction with her life onto everyone else as everything bad that happens in her life is someone else’s fault… I am fully aware of this and call her out on her BS but my husband has a much harder time…..it makes me so resentful but that’s neither here nor there. The Real Housewives franchise is a welcome break from some of the psychosis I have to deal with on a regular basis and your blog was excellent commentary. Thanks!

    • quincyil says:

      I’m sorry that you couldn’t connect with your mother in law. If we know people have issues, it does make it easier to deal with them or ignore them.

    • Rabble Rouser says:

      If it makes you feel any better, my MIL is EXACTLY like the mother from Everyone Loves Raymond. Every time she opens her mouth, I get these sympathetic looks from people.

  39. OneMoreInBoston says:

    well, well, well.

    Just when I didn’t think I could be even more impressed with our @quincy than I am, she comes in an blows my socks off. And they’re tights, so imagine how amazing that is!

    Fascinating blog Quincy, and I also thought as WCW did, are we ourselves projecting onto the HW? Is that why there are certain archetypes tat we subconciously get angry at or secretly identify with , like bad girl Danielle, or underdog Bethanny?

    But what I find even more interesting is your Alpha theories. As I work with all women, and sell to all women, and interact with all women, (sigh- any men anywhere?) I have always noticed the Alpha-ness of certain women. I usually compare them to wolves though or on a bad day female dogs (LOL) because we humans tend to run in packs.

    When an Alpha wolf is injured, there is no one to lead the pack, so the Beta’s attack, often times killing the injured Alpha, or driving them off and “elect” the new Alpha to lead the group. It seems to be a matter of survival for them to keep the pack organized for maximum hunting.

    I think we witness these “fights to the death” on the HW, (where is Danielle?) and maybe, just maybe, we also “elect” our own leader of the pack.

    Because sometimes I wonder when the arguments get SO heated, or the trolls get SO angry, that maybe the whole HW audience IS the pack?

    We seem to always think that we are just passive observers, being entertained, but clearly Jill has tried to change her behavior, or at least to give the appearance of changing, TO FIT BACK into the pack that she was driven off from.

    So my beautiful Quincy, I would love to hear your thoughts on my lil theroy, is the HW audience like a proverbial pack of wolves?

    • quincyil says:

      Are we a pack of wolves waiting to tear the flesh off of the Housewives should they make a misstep? I’m sure that a number of people in the twitter world and in other blogs believe that to be true. However, I rarely see a statement on this blog that is not followed by reasoning. We are self critical and self correcting. We often wonder if we are wrong about Jill Zarin. All you have to do is read the blogs which describe events followed by thoughts about the events. Then the comments/discussions that follow using the blog’s information, informations from the net, and personal experiences. We see the specific behavior of the reality stars generalized to our own behaviors and the behaviors we observe in our realities.

      It really isn’t about Jill Zarin of Manhattan at all. If she understood this, she might actually feel a tad flattered that she helped so many people understand themselves. Of course, I don’t think that she’s self aware as Bethenny suggested so she really won’t go this deep into reflection.

    • WindyCityWondering says:

      Of all the franchises – BH comes closest to a pack mentality/pecking order behavior. The alpha female is not Camielle and that is the problem. Kyle is not the alpha either but Camielle sees her way to the top spot through a battle with Kyle.

  40. Had Enough! says:

    Kyle thinking of starting a hair care line.

    Let’s play a game. What could Kim push? Camille? Lisa has her restaurants and Adrienne her casino, basketball team, etc. Taylor is allegedly running some kind of It company. I say allegedly only because we know nothing about what she did between cheerleading in Tulsa Oklahoma (graduating from high school in 1989) and her appearance on drek TV. We have no idea if she went to college, if she has relevant academic credentials and experience in either IT or business. So I’m not sure she has a real job.

    But Kim has no product line or job and Camille – she pretends she actually has something to do with Gramnet, his production company, but I’m guessing she shows up once in a while, annoys everyone, and after she leaves, they have a drink or ten and a good laugh.

    BTW, what little I know of Kelsey Grammer causes me to think poorly of him, but I have to say that I suffered his presence on Frasier because the scripts were funny and the other characters were wonderful. I don’t mean to confuse the real person with his outrageously irritating character, but I think to play it that well, he surely must have those characteristics IRL.

    Here’s an example of what I mean:

    Kelsey Grammer’s Heart Attack Made Him Realize How Precious His Family Is

    Kelsey Grammer says his heart attack made him realize how precious his family is. The former “Frasier” star suffered the potentially fatal attack last year but says it was a wake-up call to figure out what’s really important in life and not let work get in the way.

    He said: “Honestly, I’ve never felt better. I’m always concerned about going to work now because I’ve established such a connection with my family that’s different than it used to be when I was on ‘Frasier.'”

    “I started the family then and in the last five years I’ve spent a lot of time with them. So I find that more precious than I did before. It’s very important that the work not really intrude on that. So it’s a weird balancing act again.”

    That was August 2009. La Cage started casting in September 2009 and probably went into rehearsal by November 2009. He split for NY and let the work intrude – big time – just a few months after that interview.

    • Adgirl says:

      Sounds like he was trying to talk himself into caring about his family again. He was already bored.

      • Had Enough! says:

        Yeah, I am thinking it was more like this:

        Holy shit. I just had a heart attack. I could have died. I don’t know how much time I have left, but I sure don’t want to spend it with this bitch.

        • kbinldo says:

          You know, that was just about the realization I had when I was very sick a few years ago & almost died. Decided there were things in my life that just weren’t worth the hassle to deal with. It did take a while for that to kick in, so it’s possible Kelsey is still processing what he went through. People think those who go through life & death situations change things over night, but that’s not quite true.

    • Kellita says:

      Doesn’t Kim have a jewelry line or something? She mentioned something about that in NY, when she gave those bracelets to the other HW.

    • error 404 says:

      Let me translate the article for you:

      “Dear Producers and Casting Agents, I need to work.

      As most of you have probably heard, I had a heart attack and almost died. Don’t worry, I am as good and healthy as ever, fit to work and will not require huge insurance fees should you hire me.

      I know you haven’t seen me do anything lately, and are probably wondering how I’ve spent my time. Well, I spent a huge chunk of it with my family and therefore can now play father roles with a real sympathy and understanding that I couldn’t achieve during my Frasier years.

      It’s actually been surprisingly nice. Now that the kids are a little older and can walk, talk, joke and show some personality, like most men I can really bond with them now much more than when they were trapped in a 24/7 cycle of eat-shit-sleep-cry-eat-shit-sleep-cry-eat-shit-sleep-cry-eat-shit-sleep-cry-. ZZzzzz, am I right?

      Anywho, as I stated earlier, I need to work and I feel that my name is still a box office draw, my health is better than ever (especially now that I’m off the dope and booze) and I can bring a new sensitivity to family roles.

      For your consideration.

      Sincerely,

      Kelsey Grammer”

    • Debbie says:

      Maybe he realized how much he loves his kids. Camille comes along with the kids at first (as his family)but after he spends time with Camille, he realizes that it was just his children that he felt he was missing out on.

  41. Had Enough! says:

    Sorry if this blows everyone’s minds, but I found a pic of Jill’s Trained Sasquatch looking really good:

    Elegant, well-cut, appropriate style and length. The hair needs work, but otherwise, she looks good.

    http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/eA5doQCGvq_/Around+Bryant+Park+Day+7+Fall+09+MBFW/qoSIy8KEz5X/Kelly+Bensimon

  42. TrueLifeDiva says:

    @BlueSky, I DO buy my spices and ethnic foods at the Indian grocery! I love curry and can buy it much fresher and cheaper there.
    The only thing from a can in my chili is the stewed tomatoes. I soak equal parts kidney, red, and pinto beans. Then I simmer for at least 12hrs. It makes a difference. Some people don’t believe me but slow cooking really makes it all come together in a way that boiling for an hour never could.
    Here’s another tip: bake the sweet potatoes. Do not peel and boil. Bake them and you will hardly need any sugar. Boiling makes the sweet potatoes too mushy and sucks all the flavor out.

  43. Adgirl says:

    Quincy, you made a fantastic and articulate summation of what we see in RH, and why we watch the shows. Yes, we are judging the cast and we are measuring our own behavior and values against their words and actions.

    Since I am now “middle aged” (that means I am over the age of 25 and all you people are over 40), I have come to an additional understanding about people.

    Like time through the hourglass, there go the days of our lives (miss you Hugh Carey).

    Middle Aged Panic (formerly Mid-Life Crisis).
    It used to be 52 year old men bought red porches and ran off with the neighbor’s slutty wife. Now everyone gets into the act.
    It starts when one day you wake up and the road of your life is half traveled. You aren’t quite so cute or tight anymore. The time left where you can “make it” personally or professionally to “be someone” is quickly running out.

    You quietly panic. Holy shit. This is it. The Last Time you can either “Be Someone” or accept you are a Nobody who will not be remembered 15 minutes after you buy the farm.

    I see it in my real life. The desperation. The rejection of values and morals. Who has time to indulge in values when the finish line is in sight? This is last time to grab fame, unearned (borrowed or stolen) wealth, or a future career.
    Fuck it. If I can’t make it on my own, I will Take It!

    Watching out for number one!

    These people will knock over and stomp a blind elderly nun to steal the collection plate. They’d rob a bank if they wouldn’t be caught. Instead they run up their credit with no intention of paying or write false book reviews to kill their “friends” careers. They make wild accusations about trivial things are use it as a centerpiece to torment their rivals. They try their damndest to squash and humiliate their competitors.

    These are desperate ladies (and men) who will stop at nothing to take what you have in order to fix their own lives.

  44. Adgirl says:

    Quincy, you made a fantastic and articulate summation of what we see in RH, and why we watch the shows. Yes, we are judging the cast and we are measuring our own behavior and values against their words and actions.
    ….

    Since I am now “middle aged” (that means I am over the age of 25 and everyone else is over 40) I have come to an additional understanding about people.

    Like sand through the hourglass, so are the days of our lives. Thanks Hugh Carey, miss you.

    Middle Aged Panic (formerly Mid-Life Crisis). It used to be 52 year old men bought red porches and ran off with the neighbor’s slutty wife. Now everyone gets into the act.

    It starts when one day you wake up and the road of your life is half traveled. You aren’t quite so cute or tight anymore. The time left where you can “make it” personally or professionally to “be someone” is quickly running out.
    If I can’t make it on my own, I will Take It!

    You quietly panic. This is it. The Last Time you can either “Be Someone” or accept you are a Nobody who will not be remembered 15 minutes after you buy the farm.
    I see it in my real life. The desperation. The rejection of values and morals. Who has time to indulge in values when the finish line is in sight? This is last time to grab fame, unearned (borrowed or stolen) wealth, or a future career.
    Watching out for number one!

    These people will knock over and stomp a blind elderly nun to steal the collection plate. They’d rob a bank if they wouldn’t be caught. Instead they run up their credit with no intention of paying or write false book reviews to kill their “friends” careers. They make wild accusations about trivial things are use it as a centerpiece to torment their rivals. They try their damndest to squash and humiliate their competitors.

    These are desperate ladies who will stop at nothing to take what you have in order to fix their own lives.

  45. Adgirl says:

    I also don’t care whether someone marries into money. So what if it is a decider in whom to marry? Arranged marriages are all about doweries and security.

    I probably wouldn’t be as attracted to my husband had he not been ambitious or he as attracted to me if I wasn’t pretty.

    It’s life.

  46. Had Enough! says:

    You know how lawyers sometimes employ psychologists to help them try to pick a jury that will be sympathetic to their clients? Well, I wonder if Bravo has someone like that on staff – someone who can identify the psychopathologies of the women who audition for the show. You don’t get a crazy person on each show by accident.

    • Adgirl says:

      I am certain they do. I know most of the top reality shows employ someone to locate a shit stirring personality.

    • PJ says:

      When Kelly went nuts on the show last season it was stated by others in the cast (Bethenny I think) that there was no psychological testing that went on before you got on the show. The point was made because apparently other reality shows do have this.

    • @HadEnough maybe they don’t hire someone specifically for that, but I think the people who do the casting def. keep an eye out for something like that. I remember wondering in the earlier years of OC and Atlanta if the producers never ran a credit check on these women to see of their claims to being “rich”
      were valid since everyone seemed to be going bankrupt. Maybe they do run a credit check…see that there may a problem and hire the woman just to watch her life
      crash.

      • PJ says:

        They do have a fair share of crazy people on these shows. But what type of personality does it take to want to be on a show like this in the first place? Everyone has some kind of agenda to want to be on a reality TV show. I consider very few of the people on any of these shows to be normal, nice people.

  47. Adgirl says:

    Jill vs Camille.
    I felt betrayed by Jill because I had liked her. I loved her friendship with Bethenny. What happened? I wondered. I was confused. Bethenny was snarky too so maybe she deserved the beatdowns. It took awhile before I adjusted my emotions toward Jill. The decider was her off screen behavior.

    Camille. I didn’t get to know her before this season. She is isolated. She is challenged socially. She has IQ dismorphism. She thinks she is smarter than she is. She isn’t very nice. She has no sense of humor.

    Unlike Jill she hasn’t attacked a “friend”. But like Jill she has tried to undermine her financially – to me both are equally evil.

  48. American Idiot says:

    Hi Quincey, just wanted to say a quick “thank you” for all you do for this blog. I don’t watch MM or Fashion Show, so I don’t always comment on your recap blogs, but I wanted you to know that I do appreciate your efforts in seeing this blog continue. I have not read today’s blog, just skimmed the comments, but I will as soon as things are calmer here. Daughter just got home from college, so alot to do.

    Anyway, you work very hard on your blogs, I can tell. They are well written and thought out, so as Ramona would say, kudoz to you.

  49. skogsstig says:

    Quincy –
    This is a terrific blog entry! Clearly it gave us all much food for thought. AAnd you are doing a great job of “holding down the fort.” 🙂

    I realize this is OT, but since you have been blogging The Fashion Show: Remember how OC’s Gretchen brought in “one of my drawings?” Golnessa, the poor thing, clearly didn’t know how to deal with that. Nor did she question, apparently, Gretchen’s design ability/skill…

    I knew I recognized that fashion sketch from somewhere. It took a while, but here it is:
    http://luphia.blogspot.com/2009/03/dress-like-goddess.html
    from Atelier Versace, no less. Just fabulous Gretchen. I guess it’s OK to slap a label on some cheap make-up and call it your own, but Versace?

    • Christine says:

      Great find skogsstig! What about those great fashion folks – Isaac, Iman, the woman from Vogue, etc., not to mention the Bravo folks. They can’t recognize a Versace couture design. This wouldn’t have gotten past Tim Gunn, Heidi Klum and company on Project Runway.

      • skogsstig says:

        🙂
        You know, I don’t think Isaac, Iman, etc. saw “Gretchen’s drawings” until they watched the DVD of the show in preparation for writing their blogs… None of them were in the room when Gretchen waltzed in with the sketches – that we are aware of. But even Golnessa ought to have had a clue. I’d think.

    • quincyil says:

      That really looks like the sketch. Did Gretchen think some genius on a board would not recognize and point that out to her friends? Good find…. That is why so many people stop by here.

  50. Quincy, this is one of the best blogs I have ever read. I cannot wait to go back and read everyones post but I had to tell you how much I enjoyed reading this first.
    Such a great idea to go back to the beginning and remind everyone why we came here in the first place and to be grateful for the fact that we have such a great place to go. !

  51. kotagirl29 says:

    I am sitting here re-watching the party from the Bravo production team’s wet dream, and I have to note a few things.

    Kyle’s impression of Allison and the electronic cigarette was fabulous! I died!

    I had forgotten how Allison was fishing about the 2nd marriage with Kyle, hoping to tell her that she was going to be divorcing, but it seemed like she wanted to out some hidden marriage.

    Say what you will about Taylor’s lips, but she is the one who stood up to stop the yelling instead the big kickboxer.

    Faye was right, if they were such good girlfriends they would have spoken about the NY trip. So either they lied about discussing it or lied about being friends. Either way. . . .

    And every time the conversation seemed to reach a normal level Allison would REV it back up. She was clearly the aggressor and the fact that Camille is still claiming “friendship” with this woman speaks volumes about her character.

    • quincyil says:

      I agree with every observation.

      • Debbie says:

        Me two. Man, you guys all write so well. I lurk a lot because either what I wanna say someone else has said or I am just not as thoughtful with my words as you all are.

    • kbinldo says:

      Yup, Taylor scored some major points from me not only doing that, but how nicely she told everyone to just freakin’ stop it. “We’re not being the ladies that we are” or something like that.

  52. TLM says:

    What is an electric cigarette, anyway? This is the first I’ve heard of them.

    Can’t believe Camille said that Faye had “fake blown-up lips” and referred to her as “The Morally Corrupt Faye Resnick,” as if that’s what Faye has on her business card. I have to fault the Bravo producers, because as Camille was saying that, they should have replayed her dancing in Vegas like a stripper and bending over so someone else’s husband could stick dollar bills in her bra, stepping into a hot tub and showing everyone her ass crack, and rubbing herself against Nick Stabile at every possible opportunity. And let’s not forget her “supplement to Playboy” issue. And Faye Resnick is morally corrupt? Let’s look at Camille’s past:

    Camille Donatacci
    Camille Donatacci (born September 2, 1968 in Newport Beach, California) is a model who worked with Playboy in the mid-90s. Camille was also a dancer on the cable show, Club MTV.

    Camille appeared in the films, Private Parts and The Naked Detective.

    Camille was featured in the HDTV video dream sequence in the Broadway show Dreamtime (musical) at The Ed Sullivan Theater (directed by David Niles (director)) in 1992. In 1991 she appeared in a rock video by Rights Of The Accused called Give It All You Got.

    Camille married actor Kelsey Grammer in 1997 after they met on a blind date in 1996.[1] She then retired from nude modelling. The couple had 2 children together – a daughter in 2001 and a son in 2004 – and both children were born via a surrogate mother.[1]

    Appearances in Playboy special editions
    Playboy’s Book of Lingerie Vol. 34 November 1993.
    Playboy’s Nudes December 1993 – page 36.
    Playboy’s Great Playmate Search January 1994.
    Playboy’s Book of Lingerie Vol. 35 January 1994.
    Playboy’s Book of Lingerie Vol. 36 March 1994.
    Playboy’s Book of Lingerie Vol. 39 September 1994 – page 24.
    Playboy’s Book of Lingerie Vol. 40 November 1994.
    Playboy’s Nudes November 1994.
    Playboy’s Book of Lingerie Vol. 46 November 1995 – pages 46-47.
    Playboy’s College Girls April 1996.
    Playboy’s Book of Lingerie Vol. 53 January 1997 – cover.

    Nudes and “College Girls”? Very highbrow, Camille.

    • PJ says:

      I didn’t think that Camille called Faye morally bankrupt because she posed in Playboy. Rather because Faye made money off of the notoriety that she got from the death of her friend Nicole. It’s seems pretty clear that Faye did this and I can’t disagree that it’s a pretty awful thing to do. Who would have ever asked Faye to pose in Playboy if it hadn’t been for her notoriety coming off the OJ trial? The same with the book Faye wrote. It doesn’t matter how long after Nicole’s death these things happened (and I don’t think it was three years like Kyle says I think it was more like 1.5 years–which, if correct, would mean the book was in the works during the trial). Could you see yourself profiting from the death of someone you were supposed to have loved as a very dear friend? This does give another explanation of what Camille said and why she felt that way.

      • AZ Girl says:

        The reason why any woman would pose for Playboy is for notoriety. Was Faye’s timing good? Not really. But having someone like Camille make Faye out to be trash is just another “projection” moment in the life of Camille.

      • AZ Girl says:

        Just curious as to why Faye’s cashing in on the death of Nicole (which is hideous but a lot of people were cashing in at that time) and Camille marrying Kelsey for a better lifestyle any different?

        • error 404 says:

          for the same reason that a white collar criminal can feel superior to a thief. semantics.

          Women pose for playboy for $$$.

          Men look at playboy to objectify women.

          one can spin any bs mumbo-jumbo on it they want, but it’s still all just verbal masterbation. They women show their bodies to men for $$$ and no one “playmate” is morally superior to the other.

          Camille is an idiot who spends an insanely huge amount of time trying to prove her superiority to others.

        • PJ says:

          Getting married is something people do and no one knows why Camille married Kelsey. It’s only your own feelings that say she just did it just for money, but your feelings don’t make it so.
          Nicole was brutally murdered and Faye was supposedly a dear friend, unlike most of the others who cashed in. Faye cashed in on a tragedy and revealed personal information that may have been painful and embarrassing to Nicole’s loved ones. How do you think Nicole’s loved ones dealing with that tragedy felt about that? You really can’t see the difference?
          Kelsey Grammer had a choice to marry Camille or not marry her. What choice did Nicole have in Faye cashing in on her death, or what choice did any of Nicole’s loved ones have?
          These things are completely different and I’m kind of shocked that anyone would compare them.

          • AZ Girl says:

            I am not saying what Faye Resnick did was right. Kelsey at the time of meeting Camille was heavily into drugs and alcohol. Both Camille and Faye took advantage of a person who either could not defend themselves or too weak to make rational decisions only to “higher” their social standings and make a better life for themselves. I don’t believe Camille really loves anyone other than herself or she would not have 4 nannies raising her children.
            Of course the death of Nicole brought out the worse in a lot of people.

            • PJ says:

              Most rich people have nanny’s. I don’t think you can judge a person by those standards saying they don’t care about their children. A young friend of mine was a nanny to a family in my area and they had around the clock nannys. I think they had more than four as they had fill in nanny’s to cover days off. There was always one or two nannys on duty at all times. I think it’s pretty harsh to say someone doesn’t care about their children because they have nannys. I don’t agree that having a nanny raise your children is a good thing but it’s what most rich people do.

              • Rabble Rouser says:

                I think just because something is the ‘norm’ it doesn’t make it healthy or right. Pretty much every ‘poor little rich girl’ story starts out with being raised by nannies- and feeling a stronger bond with them than their own mother.

                I know that if my children found a deeper connection, a greater sense of comfort and security with another woman other than me, I would feel devastated and like a failure.

                My friend was a nanny for a woman who also required around the clock care for her only child, she said the obvious disconnect the mother had with beautiful sweet girl was sad. She felt the mother was almost afraid to be alone with her because she didn’t know how to relate or interact with her.

                • PJ says:

                  These are the pitfalls of being rich and/or famous. I don’t think having too much money is really a good thing for anyone.

                • PJ says:

                  Yeah it’s sad. My friend who was a nanny even had the duty of disciplining the child when the family was present. Which meant basically that when the child refused to do something she was the one who had to try and convince the child to do it.

      • Rabble Rouser says:

        I think it was a high profile case- that in the end made a lot of people a lot of money. Was her little cash grab any worse than someone elses?

        • PJ says:

          A lot of people made either money or a reputation on this case that’s true. But lawyers do defend people it’s not personal it’s their job. What Faye did was personal. I feel it’s in a different catagory. Yes I think it was a lot worse. Which of the others who made money off this case were friends of the victims? Just ask yourself would you do what Faye did? When the Titanic went down were you aware that none of the families of the victims filed a lawsuit? They all felt that making money off the death of their loved ones was wrong. I know times have changed, but I feel that’s what Faye did she made money off the tragic and brutal death of a good friend.

          • Rabble Rouser says:

            So then if there is a real villain in quest for gold in the wake of this tragedy, it would be Ron Goldman father. But it seems like he is treated with kid gloves because he was victimized by what happened to his son.

            If Faye is going to be judged for taking advantage of the doors that opened by being involved in this case, it’s only fair to realize that probably just as many doors closed because this trial and the publicity around it would have over shadowed any unrelated business ventures.

            Faye’s reputation was also sullied before all this, I remember one of the alternate theories that floated around was Faye owed Colombian drug dealers lots of money and they went to Nicole Brown Simpson’s house to try and collect on the debt – and thus the deaths of Nicole and Ron were all Faye’s fault.

            • PJ says:

              Ron Goldman lost his son but I doubt he ever got much in the way of restitution from OJ. Some of OJ’s assets were judgment proof, like his pension. Faye probably got more than Ron Goldman ever did. Restitution was the only way Ron Goldman could hope to get a little justice since OJ won his criminal trial. Was Faye looking for justice or a payday? One of these things is not like the other.

              • PJ says:

                Sorry Ron Goldman’s father Fred Goldman. Ron was the one who was killed.

                • Rabble Rouser says:

                  Fred Goldman tried to push for “If I did it” to be published so that he could use the judgment against him to seize the profits.

                  IMO, that says he was looking for more than just a moral victory but monetary satisfaction.

                  • PJ says:

                    Oh my. The guy lost a son and he still can’t get a break. Why so judgmental?

                    • LynnNChicago says:

                      PJ you’re asking why RR is judgmental? You’ve done nothing but be argumentative since you started posting on the board and people like you who tweet that you’re going to come and distrupt the board and then follow through aren’t too bright, so you’ve got no business judging anyone.

                      I’m not interested in what you think, I’m not going to watch you harass the good people on this board.

                      If you have a problem with me, take it up with me LynnAHudson@aol.com or Tweet me at LynnNChicago!

      • TLM says:

        Camille has no place judging anyone on morality. If she were a mensch, she could have said, “Welcome Faye, you and I are both part of the Playboy family” or something like that. Instead this POS set out to humiliate this woman when she herself appeared in Playboy publications at least 12 times. Had no one brought up her own appearance in Playboy, she wouldn’t have said a thing about it. She’s a sad, pathetic and empty person whose only joy is putting others down, just like her friend Allison Electric Doobie-wa.

        Allison absolutely set out to attack Kyle with Camille’s blessing. What else was the little discussion with “New friends who are about to be old friends” for in Camille’s kitchen before the other guests arrived? And how come Camille did nothing to stop Allison from attacking the other women? Camille was thrilled. Then she stood with her weird frozen face, looked at the ground and said, “I have no problem with you, Kyle.” Poor, sweet, innocent Camille. She isn’t the problem, she’s an angel. It’s all these other terrible people around her who are just, well, jealous. They’re jealous of her frozen face, fake breasts, famous husband who doesn’t live with her, her rent-a-kids, and having the best friends and makeup people that money can buy.

      • BessiB says:

        I still do not get how it is immoral to make money from talking or writing about someone you knew who was murdered. It was not a choice to be on the witness stand, and she was trashed primarily by OJ supporters – discrediting her because she talked to the press about Nicole. The woman had something to say, and there were others that wanted to hear it. Some people would do it for any number of reasons and some would not. But it hardly raises to the level of immoral behavior.

    • AZ Girl says:

      Now that we see Camille’s “history” it is obvious that she needed to hook up with someone/anyone famous to get where she is today. Kelsey at the time was using drugs and drinking when he met Camille and there you go. This idea that it is o.k to marry for money is perfectly fine in my eyes IF you have a life of your own and have or will continue to achieve whatever MEANINGFUL goals you have in life.
      Camille’s interview about Faye was telling. She does not “associate” with people like Faye Resnick. Why? Brings back some really bad memories which are listed above. Remember the NEW and IMPROVED Camille is no longer a part of that trashy Playboy crowd. So, Camille…why are we jealous again???

      • quincyil says:

        Jeana Keough and Kelly Bensimon want answers too.

        • AZ Girl says:

          @QuincyIl. I have decided that I should have compromised by integrity so that I could have the life of Camille. I am so freaking jealous. Big house in the Mailbu Hills (from what I see from maps), all alone, I see the kids when they are with the nanny’s on the other side of the house and check up on them at my discretion, I have my “friends” like Dede, Allison, Nick and my gay stylist who do nothing but agree with me all day and spend my money. Yep! Really I am so jealous NOT!

        • OneMoreInBoston says:

          hey! no sh*t- right?

  53. tweatcyn says:

    LOL, Quince, you called me out on my projecting. I lOVE it! I was thinking that even as I wrote my previous comment.

  54. quincyil says:

    There is no chance that being a sexy good girl wearng thing is a category for picking a housewife for each series, right? Camille, Danielle, Dina, Teresa, Kim Z… (Alexis is Protestant so I never noticed a cross, but she has the same vibe.)

    Ramona is older, but the bikini and cross thing is there.

    I was shocked to find out that Kim Z is Catholic and Italian too.

    Wouldn’t it be fascinating to look at the Bravo play book for new franchises?

    • kotagirl29 says:

      Yeah, we need a bunch of women who like to call attention to themselves.

      I bet they check into financial histories of these women and families. Every other reality show does psychological testing so they probably do here too, they just disguise it as something else. But there is not doubt in my mind that Bravo picks women who are teetering on the edge. They have their acryllic nails sunk into the ledge and are trying to keep everything from crumbling down (like all the analogies?).

      Of course they look for at least two they know won’t get along. And because it is a bunch of women they know there will be backstabbing and name calling. I know I can be a really catty hm mm, wench when I want to be. And yes women are emotional so you get that in the mix too.

      You have a bunch of women who love being in the center of attention now competing for the spotlight. That is a cat fight waiting to happen, want to see it quicker throw some booze at ’em and let ’em go!

  55. OneMoreInBoston says:

    I liked the psychic.

    I thought she was absolutely loony tunes, and I loved the faces she was making, very,very entertaining.

    I think she could easily make Kim walk slowly backwards off a cliff. And then shrug her shoulders that anyone could be that suggestible.

    These women get their knickers in a knot over everything, so they were positively frothing at the mouth at the slightest bit of hostility from the outsider, Allison.

    You know how sometimes you wonder, well how would this silly ninny even handle my life if they can’t even handle___________(fill in the blank)

    Now I know how they would handle my life, they would walk away.

    How’s about you grow a pair of ovaries and actually stand up for yourself without turning the dinner table into the high school cafeteria? And manage to do it without profanity while acting like a lady?

    Scratch any of these broads and lurking right under the surface is nothing but coddled weakness.

    The only one I can possibly stand is Lisa. Adrienne loses me with the annoying husband and tough chick act.

    Is it wrong that all I wanted to know at the end is what the chef was making? I would have blown Allison a kiss and just dug in.

  56. Tara R says:

    Quincy great blog.
    I usually don’t comment just read but I was glad to see I wasn’t the only one to catch Camilles look after greeting Faye. I just though I would watch again because something about the “event on Monday” kept bugging me. Remember when DeDe and Camille are in the closet picking clothes and Camille shows her the screw u shirt and says its for another night and DeDe responds with yea that’s Monday night. Then when all the ladies are together and Camille asked Kyle and Taylor if they are going to the event on Monday and they say yes which is Lisas event. We see on the previews at Lisas restaurant that’s when Kyle receives the text from Camille and says she knew I was at this event. Not that I doubted her master plan. But I see how sloppy she was now seeing these little details. I had to share with someone!

    • quincyil says:

      Sloppy is right. Camille is a terrible actress.

      • American Idiot says:

        Don’t you just love it when you discover something like this. You want to just go yell it from the rooftop. It’s good we have this blog to come to to let others know. You are a good detective, I remember the screw you t-shirt, but didn’t put it together with the text, charity event, etc. Makes you really believe Camilee is working a master plan.

    • kotagirl29 says:

      There was/is a master plan at work here for sure. Even when you think about the way the conversation was steered.

      The more you tell someone no, the more they want what they can’t have.

      “No, I’m off the clock.”

      “You might hear something unpleasant”

      They set the women up. Camille was telling the women no readings out of one of her faces, but her other one was egging them on.

      It was a set-up from the beginning. Knowing Kyle wouldn’t back down from the challenge, Allison hinted that she wouldn’t like what she heard. Of course Kyle really wanted to hear it then.

      I think part of the problem was when they were rehearsing their scripts ahead of time Allison was drunk and forgot which one of the women had trouble with female relationships and which one didn’t.

      Since Camille hires all her friends and her buddy Nick is an actor (probably scripted by Camille as her love interest) it makes sense for Camille to script her dinner party. And of course Allison, DeDe, and Camille covered behavior and conversation topics before the party. Heck for all I know Camille paid Allison to do a negative reading on her enemy just to start the confrontation.

    • TLM says:

      I did notice that scene, and the fact that Camille said “Screw you” was her mantra or something. I thought, really? That’s your mantra? That said it all.

  57. jeang says:

    Off topic, just read jz twitter and she is beside herself that she is only 70 shy of 100k twitter followers. Pathetic, Betheny has more than 3 times 1ook/Is jz grasping or what? ALso is begging people to follow her sister. Some life!!!!

  58. Dani says:

    Kat, thank you for your warm hello. I responded to it upthread.

  59. Sha2000 says:

    Great insight in your piece Quincy, good job.

  60. Wall St Lady says:

    OneMoreInBoston says:

    December 19, 2010 at 6:32 p
    I love it when you do the
    I am the Queen up here and
    Allison, u r down here as my court jester ,for my pleasure !
    But I bet u use ur whipping girl to blow kisses for u !

    • OneMoreInBoston says:

      well now, I’m not too important that I can’t blow kisses at someone trying to start a fight with me, because it gets them so steamy mad!

      That way we all can have a little dinner theater. They usually are crying in the ladies room by dessert, so I have a chance to see if their date is more suitable for me than them. They’re usually not though.

      So then I like to get a cappucino with a shot of Kaluha on the side, and somehow always end up with a tearful apology. 😉

  61. terry aley says:

    I noticed Michaele Salahi (RHODC) posted a link to Barnes and Noble to purchase their book as a holiday gift. http://fb.me/NlBme1gC
    Note only two reviews, and they’re both GLOWING 5-star reviews.
    Then I go over to Amazon to see what’s REALLY happening with their book and the reviews. 49 reviews, 1.5 star total. Susan Saunders anyone? Oddly, the subtitle of their book is “Be Careful Who You Trust.”
    http://www.amazon.com/Cirque-Du-Salahi-Careful-Trust/dp/1439273294/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1292808473&sr=8-1

  62. quincyil says:

    Her facebook was glowing too. Are there really people on this planet who like the Salahis? I think the friends of Desiree Rogers don’t think much of them.

  63. WindyCityWondering says:

    Quincy – I will go shopping after Xmas sales for the biggest martini glasses I can find. Or maybe I should just look for crystal vases….for the white liquid refreshments to be served in.

    • OneMoreInBoston says:

      I think I will go and buy Teresa’s Gucci glasses at the auction.

      • WindyCityWondering says:

        I am sending “Guidice” money your way for the auction cause those glasses would be great! Or we could just sneak in and liberate them…..

  64. AZ Girl says:

    OT Kinda….someone told me that they received as a holiday goodie a cheesecake but the bottom half was red velvet cake and the top was cheesecake! Where can I find this? It is a work of art! This is something that could promote world peace as far as I am concerned. Sigh…………………………………..

    • Dani says:

      AZ Girl, I am in Phoenix try Yogurtini, 475 E Bell Rd. They have your cheesecake and it is to die for.

      • Adgirl says:

        I want a cherpumple monster pie-cake.

        • OneMoreInBoston says:

          Oh.My.God.

          I DIE!

          • LynnnSoCal says:

            OMG! This is right around the corner from my house! Those reconditioned stoves cost major cash! Brian does a really great job with them and if you want he will refurbish yours and do whatever color you want. They’re beautiful. Too weird! I’m not kidding, I can walk there in 3 minutes. The world just gets smaller and smaller. I don’t know Charles, but I need to, he’s funny!

  65. Amber...Real Wife says:

    OT but true. I sometimes click on Lynn’s twitter and noticed that there is some activity going on. Not trying to spark anything (meanwhile i’m pulling out the lighter), but it seems Lynn’s detractors, a few familiar names, are talking to RichAmons and saying that he should’ve given JennSales the interview. JennSales is saying she doesn’t do interviews or keychains. LOL and Bless his heart, but I thought I saw RichAmons say he doesn’t know who she, Jenn, is. Did I get it right?

    • Kat says:

      I’ll take your word for it. That sounds pretty funny. Rich has a great sense of humor.

    • WindyCityWondering says:

      Jenn must not be do much if her “fan” has to hassle Lynn for her activities.

    • Debbie says:

      She, JennFails, Is a real loon and a bitch. The other day her and her minion (singular) were trying to stir shit up about the whole Bethenny vs. Johnny Weir fued on twitter. We went at it for awhile until her and her friend, who were demanding an explanation from Lynn about some nonsense, finally called me a crazy Ho. I went off from there.

      • OneMoreInBoston says:

        there seems to be quite a bit of…activity? going on at the moment.

        But never fear, tinfoil was Buy One, Get One at the supermarket, so I have a large supply of hats just in case the trollies comein to play.

        @debbie- I would consider it an honor if you called me a Crazy Ho. Coming from you, I would take it as a compliment. Or that someone let the cat out of the bag. 😉

    • Rabble Rouser says:

      The minions are hard at work, that other wack-a-doodle who keeps harassing Bravo-lebities who go on Lynn’s show because according to her is a ‘hate’ blogger is now accusing Simon of sending his followers to attack her and Jill Zarin because we are ‘bullies’.

  66. Sha2000 says:

    Just listened to Lynn Rich Amons interview (great fun while wrapping holiday gifts btw); how great was Rich? Thoroughly enjoyed it; what a smart & nice person… recommend.

  67. TrueLifeDiva says:

    ****The Gretchen/Fashion Show sketch debate!!!****
    I am friends with Gretchen on Twitter. I asked her point blank if those were her designs or the clothing line she models for, this was her answere…
    “I’m the face of Azadeh couture! But that wasn’t one of her sketches either, it was just off the computer.”

    Hope that clears it up for you guys. Doesn’t sound like she’s trying to “fool” anyone at all. JMO 🙂

  68. California35 says:

    I left for the day, but am back. I did some of the shopping I had to do yesterday and went to see Narnia. Did I miss much? I’m sure I did, I want to read everything you guys had say.

    Before I do though…. I got the RedBook magazine because it has Bethenny on the cover. “I’m completely done with women being rewarded for bad behavior”.

  69. StillAWallflower says:

    Great blog, Quincy! This wallflower had a very busy day hosting a toddler’s bday party, so reading everyone’s comments will be breakfast with my coffee tomorrow morning.

    Gotta say, I had almost given up on the Housewives franchise altogether (couldn’t stomach NJ or DC), but got sucked back in with BH (and from the comments/blogs here, I kinda regret not watching Atlanta). My books are gathering dust, but my TV and computer are feeling the love!

  70. Kat says:

    I want to braid Kim’s wig so tight it jumps ship.

  71. TLM says:

    Apollo’s record:
    http://starcasm.net/archives/62013

    Don’t know if it was reported on IHJZ but Apollo was the “numbers guy” in a stolen car operation.

  72. HD says:

    Can someone please tell me what Apollo said he did for a living on WWHL? I was on the phone. Thank you.

    • Cusi77 says:

      HD_ I payed attention the most I could… it was veeery confusing and elaborated. I wish I had been on the phone…

      • HD says:

        LOL! I was talking to a friend and trying to listen and I missed it. I have to stay up to watch it again. Phaedra probably coached him on what to say. LOL!

    • Kat says:

      He said he sets up locations to be “turn key” ready for other businesses if iirc.
      I missed a lot of it.

    • he works for something called “a turnkey operation” essentially what they do is move companies from one location to another, setting up all the furniture, get computers all set and ready. Phone lines are set, everything done for the company so all they do is “turn the key” to the new location and it is completely up and running for them to do business.

  73. Cusi77 says:

    Hi to everyone!

    I have a silly question about Cintya (who is gorgeous, btw),

    We saw her with short hair when she got engaged -I did not like it as much as much as with long hair… Does her hair is long or short? Both ways look her own hair… I am confused! And I think she is one of the most beautiful woman in all HW franchise.

  74. Cusi77 says:

    When my husband saw Cintya tonight he told me that he could see she is the kind of woman I use as inspiration for my sculptures. It is true. Long neck, beautiful proportions… she reminds me the head sculptures of A. Modigliani.

    • HD says:

      You learn something new every day. I didn’t know you did sculptures. How neat is that!

      • I didn’t know you were an artist, either!
        A sculptor no less!

        • Cusi77 says:

          (blushing) Yes, girls. I have been working with my hands for 3 decades. I like to play with clay, wax, wood (once or twice I’ve jumped in a 6 foot high piece of wood) Sometimes is stone or marble. I like the human figure… loving couples. Faces in meditation state of happiness.

          Lately I am doing sculptures to wear. Meaning: Silver Jewelry… I like to play with fire! I will soon have a site in Internet. I also do Printmaking and watercolor.

  75. HD says:

    Why does Kim talk about Big Poppa like he is not married? She talks about him like he is really her husband or something…

    • if you can explain anything Kim does you are a better person than me.

      to me, she is just an oddity. thought I got her. but I was wrong. I will

      get over it.

      • Adgirl says:

        I’m not defending her but she implied he spent nearly every night at her house and they vacationed together so his “separation” seemed legit. According to her.

  76. NMhousewife says:

    The more I watch Nene this season, the less I like her. I thought she had changed from last season’s shenanigans, but absolutely not. She is a crummy friend. Instead of just admitting that she did the wrong thing by showing Kim the contract, she turned it around on Cynthia and almost had Cynthia apologizing. I always took the contact as a joke between friends for them to laugh over, but Nene hd to go and twist it to something strange and unnatural and laugh at her only TRUE friend on the show. She is nothing but a bully. sorry, I really tried to like her.

  77. ches says:

    I was kind of curious as to how Camille’s kids interact with her. I mean when they’re not with one of the 4 nannies. I’ve come to the conclusion from the body language, that the oldest, a girl, has real emotional problems dealing with her mother. Here are a couple of examples, but if you image google CG and Mason or CG and children it brings up many more. The little girl’s connection really seems to be with her father. It’s sad that Camille will probably end up with custody.

    http://www.zimbio.com/photos/Camille+Grammer/Mason+Grammer/Cirque+Du+Soleil+Show+Kooza+Opening+Night/bDQF87jWGh_

  78. Adgirl says:

    Why Atlanta so boring? The women, all of the women this time (finally) were at the spa waiting room.

    Sheree: I’m broke. But mastercard hasn’t figured it out yet so I just charged $7400 on over priced furnishing for my daughters Tierra’s apartment.

    Kim: I usually date married men but mine ran out of money so now I’m dating a much younger pro football player who apparently likes women with rubber faces and plastic bubbies. Someone said there is a problem with head injuries in the NFL.

    Phaedra: It’s not classy to talk about someone else’s vagina. It’s perfectly alright to discuss a man’s penis and sexual tricks he can do with it.

    Cynthia: When I agreed to marry Peter my first thought was “dinosaur”.

    Kandi: Did I tell you that Kim is not a serious artist like me? Well, she isn’t.

    NeNe: I am getting a divorce, so I need to stop bragging about famous people I meet and drag their assed to an interview.

  79. California35 says:

    Is anyone watching survivor? I got into it this season…Tonight is the finale, and I was trying to read everything here before the show started tonight so I could focus.

    Also, who is in California, I feel I will need a boat to get to work tomorrow 😛

    I want to join the dinner party with you guys. There will be plenty of conversation. We can all cook and bring our favorite dish, dessert, dip, drink. I’m sure it would be a lot of fun. The problem would be to find a big enough place 🙂

  80. California35 says:

    Hi Cusi, so there is rain ther too.

  81. California35 says:

    Well, I better start with going to bed now, if I want to get up early.

    Good night.

  82. Noelle says:

    I’m starting to like Phadrea….or is cause I despise Kim?

    Just wanted to put this out there….had to chime in.

  83. Noelle says:

    Good Morning to you too Kat! lol
    Are you done with your shopping?

    • Kat says:

      Not yet. I hate crowds.

      • Noelle says:

        I’m fine with outside malls…inside malls are hazardous to your health and mine! Honest…I feel trapped and overwhelmed and caged.
        Oh Gee, Thanks Mom and Dad! jkjkjkjk…Couldn’t help myself!

        Just fininished making cookies with my youngest and reading “Old Yeller,” with her. (At this point, could someone shoot me before Old Y……PLEASE!!) She had no clue and….just WOW! (A real punch in the gut.)
        How’s your day been?

  84. Noelle says:

    @Kat,
    Happy Hoidays!
    xoxo

  85. quincyil says:

    This morning, Lynn has the Hotlanta girl’s blog. Tonight, I will watch Tabitha’s Salon Takeover and write my version of it for the board tomorrow morning. I set up the record on Skating with the Stars. I have been watching the Bethenny part and reading Lynn’s blog. I really don’t know much about professional skating or the other people other than I saw one in a Syfy moview long ago. My thought was to read the board’s play by play during the skating show and include comments from the board in the skating part of the blog tomorrow since many members enjoy discussing the skating. I will give credit to your insights, of course. That way we will almost have what Lynn gives us on Tues mornings.

  86. Maite1964 says:

    Great blog Quincyil!!! Happy Holidays to you too!!!

  87. Salish says:

    A little late, but just wanted to add that was a really great blog. I really love your writing.

  88. PJ says:

    OK I’m done talking about Camille, Faye, Kyle (well I have a few more things to say about Kyle but I’ll leave that for later), the OJ trial, Playboy. Did anyone notice Linda Thompson on this show? She used to be Elvis’ girlfriend and was married to Bruce Jenner. She is the mother of Brody Jenner. I don’t know how old she is now but in her Elvis and Jenner days she was a real beauty. What on earth has she done to herself? I thought she looked downright scary. Is that what plastic surgery does for you?

  89. boston02127 says:

    test

    ❆ ✶ ░M░E░R░R░Y░ ஜ ░C░H░R░I░S░T░M░A░S░ ✶ ❆ ✶ ░F░E░L░I░Z░ ஜ ░N░A░T░A░L░ ✶ ❆ ✶ ░J░O░Y░E░U░X░ ஜ ░N░O░E░L░ ✶ ❆ ✶ ░F░E░L░I░Z░ ஜ ░N░A░V░I░D░A░D░ ❆✶

Comments are closed.